HIIFLY

HIIFLY

Well Known Member
I am a NewBee RV-8 builder and currently have a Lyc. IO36B1E (Rear) facing fuel injection servo , does anyone know if this will work on the RV-8 ??? Or do I have to buy a Frt. Sump ?
I might as well ask about the prop too , It is a counter weighted Hartzell constant speed . HC-C2YK-4CF Type. Thanks in advance J.R.
 
Probably not

I don't know for sure, but there's a good chance that it won't fit. The engine mount gets in the way. You might have to substitute a different sump with vertical induction. I ran into the same problem using an O360 A1G6D, and changed to vertical induction and had to change to another carburetor. Others may have other suggestions, but you might still need to go with a vertical induction sump. Fortunately, it's not hard to do.
 
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Best to change the direction to forward or vertical.....

Here is a link to an earlier discussion about the IO-360B1E.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=40248&highlight=360+B1E

I also have that engine and I put a Superior forward facing cold air induction sump on it with the same Bendix fuel servo, etc. It will work fine. I even recall an old thread where someone put the rear facing setup into service, but as I recall it was full of problems to deal with. If I find that thread I will post the link.
 
Lyc, IO 360 B1E

Thanks for your reply's , I have been thinking about this and comming to the conclusion that the motor mount is the problem . It is Not designed to accept the rear Servo , So how hard could it be to modify a type 1 engine mount that would clear the rear mounted servo ? Does anyone see any problems with this ?
 
Easier to modify the sump than the motor mount

The rear-facing induction sump should still have the cast-in boss for the forward induction mount too. You can make a cover plate for the rear opening, have a machine shop open the front hole and put four threaded studs in. I think many people have done this.
 
Can't be easily done on this engine

scsmith said:
The rear-facing induction sump should still have the cast-in boss for the forward induction mount too. You can make a cover plate for the rear opening, have a machine shop open the front hole and put four threaded studs in. I think many people have done this.
Click to expand...

Steve,
You are confusing the -B1E sump with the IO-360-Cxx series sumps. The IO-360-Bxx sumps are mostly vertical induction sumps. They are not "cold air" sumps like the IO-360-A series and IO-360-C series engines. The IO-360-Bxx series engines are 180 hp parallel valve models. They have vertical induction. Their sumps more closely resemble the sumps used on carburetor equipped 360 engines. The -B1E is an specialized variant. It's sump is similar to the carburetor models, but is rear induction. See below

io360enginesumps.jpg


These are the 4 most common 360 engine sumps. The -B1E "style" sump is at the upper left. This style sump is used on Grummans, among others. The sump at the upper right is the most common "updraft" sump used on most of the parallel valve IO-360-Bxx series. The sump at the lower left is the most common IO-360-Cxx series sump. This is the sump which CAN be converted to forward facing. At the lower right is the sump used on the IO-360-Axx and IO-360-Mxx series engines. The two sumps shown in the bottom of the drawing are the "cold air" sumps. The "cold air" sumps keep the air paths below the portion of the sump which contains the oil. They are easy to discern externally, because they do not have the short, steel stubs coming out of them. They do not use a rubber hose connector [similar in appearance to an automotive radiator hose] between the sump and the intake tube.
That said, there are exceptions to all these general rules. For example, the TIO-360-C1A6D uses the same style sump as the IO-360-B1E.
I'm sure this is all as clear as mud! ;)

Charlie Kuss



Charlie Kuss
 
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Sump ID.

Charlie is correct my sump looks like the one in the upper left , darn.

I,m not sure how I am going to do this just yet but it looks like I have some options that I need to explore .

1. Buy a verticle type sump, but will my servo work with it ?

2. Buy a horizontal sump and tubes I believe this will work with my servo ?

3. I read in one of these threads that a 45 deg. elbo is available from a twin Comanchie engine and this may allow for a rear installation with my exhisting sump ????

4. MODIFY the motor mount to work with my rear facing servo . Any thoughts on the enginering of this modification would be greatly appreciated.
I can cut and weld tubing this I have done before . Thanks , Joe
 
Perhaps this will help

HIIFLY said:
Charlie is correct my sump looks like the one in the upper left , darn.

I,m not sure how I am going to do this just yet but it looks like I have some options that I need to explore .

1. Buy a vertical type sump, but will my servo work with it ?

2. Buy a horizontal sump and tubes I believe this will work with my servo ?

3. I read in one of these threads that a 45 deg. elbow is available from a twin Comanche engine and this may allow for a rear installation with my existing sump ????

4. MODIFY the motor mount to work with my rear facing servo . Any thoughts on the engineering of this modification would be greatly appreciated.
I can cut and weld tubing this I have done before . Thanks , Joe
Click to expand...

Joe,
1 & 2) The IO-360-Bxx, IO-360-Axx and IO-360-Mxx engines ALL use #66224 as the gasket between the sump and the FI servo. Your servo will fit the other 3 style sumps. FYI, the bottom two sumps [cold air] will add about 7 hp to your engine. Besides the advantage of not absorbing as much heat, these intake systems have "tuned" [aka equal length] intake runners.
3) No personal experience with this. I do know that John Huft used an elbow to convert a vertical induction -Bxx sump to forward horizontal induction. See

http://www.lazy8.net/intake.new.JPG

4) More involved than your other 3 options.

You might want to check out the two threads shown below for more info on your options. See

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=49287&highlight=horizontal+sump

&

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=41657

Charlie Kuss
 
Choises ?

Thanks Charlie for all the good info.

If I understand this correctly I can buy a used sump from a IO-360-A1B6 and four new/Used tubed from from a Lyc. IO-360-M1B part #'s
1. APS42E22611
2.APS42E22612
3.APS42E22613
4/APS42E22614

This will fit and make my B1E a FWD facing servo with no other modification ?? Please confirm .

Thank's again , Joe
 
By Jove, I think he's got it!

HIIFLY said:
Thanks Charlie for all the good info.

If I understand this correctly I can buy a used sump from a IO-360-A1B6 and four new/Used tubed from from a Lyc. IO-360-M1B part #'s
1. APS42E22611
2.APS42E22612
3.APS42E22613
4/APS42E22614

This will fit and make my B1E a FWD facing servo with no other modification ?? Please confirm .

Thank's again , Joe
Click to expand...

Joe,
That is correct. All of the IO-360-Axx sumps with the forward facing servo will fit your engine. The -Cxx rearward facing sumps will also fit your engine but will need to be modified to forward facing. The modified -Cxx sumps will ONLY work on tail draggers. The info on how to do that is in the second link I provided earlier. Another option is to buy the sump AND intake tubes from an IO-360-Axx series engines. The intake tubes from these engines will fit with the addition of a spacer, per the second link previously provided.
The method you outlined above would be the preferred method, to ensure proper exhaust system fitment. Otherwise, you "might" need a custom exhaust.
Charlie
PS The IO-360-M1A uses the same intake tubes as the -M1B
 
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Joe,

One other thing, for you to replace the sump and intake tubes is very easy. You will need a new gasket of course, some RTV, and the tubes but the old sump can be removed, the case cleaned, an the new sump installed in probably and hour or two.

Not a big deal.
 
Never use RTV near oil passages

N941WR said:
Joe,

One other thing, for you to replace the sump and intake tubes is very easy. You will need a new gasket of course, some RTV, and the tubes but the old sump can be removed, the case cleaned, an the new sump installed in probably and hour or two.

Not a big deal.
Click to expand...

I would not recommend using RTV on the sump gasket. If memory serves me, there is an oil passageway which goes from the sump to the accessory cover through this gasket. It is possible to plug up this passageway with RTV [using the famous, "If a little is good, more is better philosophy" ] Serious engine damage could result. Hylomar or POB would be better suited to this job. Neither of these sealants harden. Any excess will simply be swept away by the oil.
You will also need 4 new intake to cylinder head gaskets and a new servo to sump gasket.
Charlie Kuss
 
chaskuss said:
I would not recommend using RTV on the sump gasket. If memory serves me, there is an oil passageway which goes from the sump to the accessory cover through this gasket. It is possible to plug up this passageway with RTV [using the famous, "If a little is good, more is better philosophy" ] Serious engine damage could result. Hylomar or POB would be better suited to this job. Neither of these sealants harden. Any excess will simply be swept away by the oil.
You will also need 4 new intake to cylinder head gaskets and a new servo to sump gasket.
Charlie Kuss
Click to expand...

Charlie,

There is an oil passage on some sumps, not all. Also, when applying any type of gasket material, such as RTV, you want a very thin film of it. If any squeezes out, you have put on too much. Also, don't apply any kind of sealant where there is an opening. Duh.

PS. By "RTV" I'm talking about gasket sealent, not the stuff we use to seal the baffles.
 
Many thanks

Sorry to sound so confuse but their seems to be quite of possiable combinations that will / will work with mods / and might work ?? LOL /

I just got a call from my shipper and he will be here tomorrow around five PM to deliver my RV-8 Project ! Yea ! Here comes Santa Clause :D here comes, well you know the rest .

I have been looking forward to this project for a long time and am sure that you all will get sick of me asking questions ( I hope not ) so that said .

Many Thanks to all who responded , Joe Ross :D , I just can't seem to stop smiling !
 
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