pilot28906

Well Known Member
I have been reading the forums for over a year, but this is my first post. I want to build an RV7A and wanted to know if the 7A performs aerobatics OK? Is there any problems with the free castering nose wheel? Also, how does the RV's in general handle turbulance compared to Cherokee's and Cessna's? Thanks for all the helpfull info in the forum; I have learned much by reading everyones posts.

John
 
http://www.rvproject.com/videos.html has some videos of some very basic acro in an RV-7. Specifically the videos from January 12, 2005 and April 8, 2005.

Be sure to watch the March 4, 2005 video...it really highlights the way the RV-7 handles.

And be sure to get a ride to seal the deal. There's no substitute for the "$60k free ride." Where are you located?
 
Hard to say

pilot28906 said:
I have been reading the forums for over a year, but this is my first post. I want to build an RV7A and wanted to know if the 7A performs aerobatics OK? Is there any problems with the free castoring nose wheel? Also, how does the RV's in general handle turbulence compared to Cherokee's and Cessna's? Thanks for all the helpful info in the forum; I have learned much by reading every ones posts.

John
My question to you is are you an aerobatic pilot? If you are than its not an Extra 300 or Citabria; it's a RV and it flys FUN acro well. So the only real way to answer your question is you need to go up in an RV and actually fly one. The nose wheel, tail wheel makes no difference to acro.

RV's are loved for their handling. Responsive and light controls but not too twitch. Good balance between pitch and roll forces. All this good for Acro. If you are a novice and what to learn to fly a RV in aerobatic maneuvers, I'll tell you this. it's easy. May be too easy? You will have great confidence and think you are better than you are. By that I mean the RV will do a roll or loop with ease with feet flat on the floor if you want, due to the design of the "Frise" type ailerons. Not ideal technique but it illustrates my point. In a Citabria, Cub, Stearman you need to put some very large movements and coordinate the rudder well to make it fly well. A RV will make even a new-be think they are topgun.

So to answer the question it's excellent for gentleman's aerobatic. By that I mean loops and rolls for example. It does not do snap rolls well (without stall strips). Personally I don't like snap rolls. Also it is clean. You can't do a split-S from cruise or you will exceed Vne. I set up at 135-140 mph for most maneuvers (100-110 mph for split-s) and fly my routine until I can't stand it anymore. Max 3 g's during most maneuvers if you do it right; If that all sounds greek, than leave it at, IT's FUN!

RV's are known for Acro, Short, cross country all in one plane and the reason they are popular. Also compared to fiberglass kits the RV kit price is lower up to a factor of 5.

Now if you are a real hardcore ultimate Acro pilot and want to fly Acro competition, the RV is not great for that. Its too fast an clean to stay in the "Box" easily. Some do fly RV's in the sportsman class. I never did but my friend did. He made mods to his RV-4 like inverted fuel/oil and did OK. He was just learning acro and new to competition, but a year later he got a second plane, a dedicated "Zlin" acro plane, in partnership with friends. If you want to airshow acro get a Pitts or an Acro kit, like a One-Design or Giles.


Turbulence. A RV is better in turbulence because of the "short" solid stout wing. A RV just feels more solid in the bumps. A Cessna flexes, and I had a door pop open due to turbulence and airframe flexing once in a Cessna. I can tell you about a fellow builders experience and what his wife said after she transition to flying in their new RV. She felt more secure and safe in the RV, because it felt so solid in the bumps. Remember the higher the "wing loading" the better a plane flys through turbulence.

Both questions are hard to answer because you don't mention you flight time, experience and if you have any RV time. But if the answer to the latter is NONE, you need to schedule a Demo flight. It is like trying to discribe sex, you just have to try it. BTW, they call the Demo flight by many names, like the $60,000 ride, but bring your check book; you will likely be buying a kit after you first ride. Good Luck George
 
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My 7A has been an excellent cross country plane for us. It handles bumps and turbulence much better than the Cherokee we previously owned. I do not have auto pilot, yet the plane flies very steady and is a pleasure flyng long distances. We flew back to SE WI from Page, AZ in 7 hrs flying time over an 8 hr and 15 min trip with no fatigue.

As far as Aerobatics, I never did any prior to my March, '06 BFR, which I did with an aerobatic instructor. I only did rolls and wing overs during that session, but they were Great and I am going to do more soon. The manuvers were smooth and stable. It was a blast. Like was ptreviously pointed out, the RV is not a serious aerobatic plane, but for fun sport aerobatics, it fills the bill.

Roberta
 
It may SEEM bumpier

RV's handle turbulence much better than a Cherokee, but you may not think so at first. The difference is speed. Small bumps become big ones when you're doing 160 MPH instead of 100. And when you first start flying your new RV, you're breaking in a new engine at high power settings and flying every day, so your first impression may be: "Man, this is a bumpy riding airplane!".

Slow it down to Cherokee speeds and you'll find it's much smoother than a Cherokee. Also, the way it handles the bumps is much different -- you don't get thrown around so much. I've never felt like I was on the verge of losing control, like my old Cherokee used to feel on a bumpy day. You don't get the big roll transitions like you do in a Cherokee.
 
I finally got my first ride an RV over the weekend. Thanks John! It's good to know I like the plane I'm 80% done building. It was a blast! :D

We ran into some fairly bumpy patches that were (as someone else pointed out) magnified by going 160mph.

One thing I noticed that was different than a 172 is that we occasionally got some yaw oscillations going that took several cycles to damped out. It wasn't bad, just different.

Dave
 
Davepar said:
One thing I noticed that was different than a 172 is that we occasionally got some yaw oscillations going that took several cycles to damped out. It wasn't bad, just different.
That is literally my ONLY complaint about how my RV-7 handles. The fishtailing in turbulence with feet off the rudder pedals. If you keep your feet on the pedals with a bit of pressure -- not applying rudder, just holding the rudder centered, there's basically no fishtailing tendency. Mildly annoying.

I've been told it's "better than a V-tail Bonanza". I really liked the way my old Mooney used to handle turbulence...better than the RV in my opinion. But as many have said, the RV is better than most of the stuff people are used to flying.

I was told that the larger rudder with the riveted trailing edge would reduce the fishtailing tendency, but that's not what I've experienced in other RVs (mine has a folded RV-8 rudder).

I've been toying with the idea of adding a dorsal fin that tapers from the turtledeck up a few inches on the VS, just to add a bit more vertical area back there. It would be pretty easy to try and discard if it doesn't do anything. But something tells me Van's would have come up with this already if it really made any difference, so I'm reluctant to try it. If I have time before paint goes on, I may give it a shot.

The "issue" isn't significant enough for me to want to bother doing much about it. So I hope I'm not overstating the symptom.
 
Thanks

Thanks for the info. My idea of aerobatics would only be for "fun". Sounds like the RV's are pretty good in the bumps. I live in far western NC (mountains) and get some pretty good bumps at times. I am a part time CFII/MEI and have a little over 1,100 hours; mostly in single engine "spam" cans with about 80 hours in a couple twins. I hope to finish the tool kit and order the tail kit as soon as I sale an un-needed car. Anyone need a good car (Toyota Camry,71K)?! We have a few RV's in my area and I hope to get a ride soon. Thanks for all the info, I'm sure I will have lots of questions down the road. Great Site!

John
 
Get Dem Dare Feet on Da Rudder Pedals

dan said:
That is literally my ONLY complaint about how my RV-7 handles. The fishtailing in turbulence with feet off the rudder pedals. If you keep your feet on the pedals with a bit of pressure -- not applying rudder, just holding the rudder centered, there's basically no fishtailing tendency. Mildly annoying.
Here is an old flying story. I was getting a check out in a Ted Smith Aerostar (mid wing twin, later Piper). For those who fly twins and planes with tip tanks they can wallow around a little more in turbulence than other planes.

HERE'S THE TRICK. Make your feet Yaw dampers. The pilot giving me a check out told me to stop the yawing. I said how? Never heard of that before. Well first put your feet on the rudder. If you just let the rudder float, it will contribute to you fishtailing.

Than he said STOP THE YAWING. No kidding this guy could, or tried little counter rudder inputs and actually reduce the fish tailing. I tried it and kind of got it but not as well as he did, at least on that flight. However over the years I have practiced it. It's possible to dampen the oscillations with your feet. Its a visual thing where you pick a ref point on the windscreen. If anything you can reduce the oscillations. If you do anything at least PUT your feet firmly on the rudder Pedals. Make your feet the Yaw damper.

The concept is sound, but can you can react fast enough or with the correct input is another story. In larger planes that actually have yaw dampers, where the rudder is automatically actuated. With out it sweep wing jets would be all over the place. I think some models of Lear Jets have two yaw dampers, and if the YD's are not working the plane is grounded. Who knows TruTrak may come out with a yaw damper for the RV. G
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
<<<SNIP>>>
Who knows TruTrak may come out with a yaw damper for the RV. G
Haven't they already? For the RV-10 ... using a modified version of the Sorcerer?

Think I saw that somewhere amongst these pages **and** at SnF in the Trutrak booth.

I could be wrong ....

James
 
I wonder why 6's don't fishtail?

I've heard the complaint about fishtailing from several 7 drivers. My 6 doesn't do it. I wonder what the difference is?

If it's not the riveted trailing edge, maybe it's the balanced rudder. Or maybe it has something to do with W&B (my plane's in Dan's database if someone wants to compare numbers).
 
I've flown a six and it did it

I have only <5 hours in RV's at this point but I have flown a 6 in turbulance and can identify with Dan's comments about keeping the rudder braced with feet. Even with feet in position and the rudder locked the aircraft wanted to yaw about the cg location. The result is a sensation of the tail sliding around at the back.

Richard
 
Yep, I flew Dan's -7 and experenced the yawing. I've been trying since then to sort out it my head how to fix it. How about a pair for medium stiffness matched springs attached to the rudder pedals then to the firewall structure?
 
yawing tendency

Darn, I didn't know about the yawing tendency. I haven't experienced it in my friend's 7. Oh well, I still would have chosen the 7.

On other aircraft that have an annoying yawing tendency in turbulence (Diamond DA 40) I have used the technique someone stated above of using counter rudder to damp and eliminate the effect. It works well, but it adds yet another task to the list.

I figured that the RV wouldn't have such behavior because of its relatively short coupling and larger aft fuse cross section. I guess I was wrong.

Antony
 
It seems to me that the effects of CG placement would affect yaw characteristics as much as pitch.
The more neutral the CG, the more the tendency to yaw. "Zat sound right?

If so, the larger rudder should help, rather than hurt, any yaw motion, and a dorsal fin would limit yaw tendencies even more.

With all that said, it has been said many times that the RV design is a perfect blend of what it takes to do everything really well rather than do any one thing perfectly.
Additionally, this discussion of (minimal) yaw has come up only now after all these years?

Sounds to me like we're picking fleas off a rat's behind on this one.
 
aparchment said:
Darn, I didn't know about the yawing tendency. I haven't experienced it in my friend's 7. Oh well, I still would have chosen the 7.

It must be real subtle - I haven't noticed it. But I've (a) only been flying my 7 for 100 hrs, (b) tend to rest my feet on the rudder peddals and (c) tend to be not very observant :eek: .
 
My understanding of the RV-7 fishtailing is that it had to do with airflow seperation on the rudder, i.e. once you induce any yaw, the airflow seperates on one side of the rudder causing the rudder to kick over a bit and send the tail the other way...then it just oscilates. That's why resting your feet on the pedals works. It's the rudder movement causing the fishtailing.

That's my understanding of it.

Just as a little side note, when I flew Rosie's -6, the first thing he told me was to get my darn feet off the rudder pedals. These ships have practically no adverse yaw. Being that I have most of my time in planes like Citabria's and Champs, it was nice treat to keep my feet flat on the floor for once....not a habit I'd want to get into but certainly a nice change.
 
I have the large rudder on my 7A and have absolutely no yaw in my airplane. If I try to force the rudders in flight it just quickly returns to straight and level flight. This is the most rock solid, steady plane I have ever flown, yet the controls are light and agile with just the perfect amount of back pressure.

Roberta
 
robertahegy said:
I have the large rudder on my 7A and have absolutely no yaw in my airplane. If I try to force the rudders in flight it just quickly returns to straight and level flight. This is the most rock solid, steady plane I have ever flown, yet the controls are light and agile with just the perfect amount of back pressure.

yep. this matches my (limited) experience.
 
Did it have the balanced rudder

rwtrwtau said:
I have only <5 hours in RV's at this point but I have flown a 6 in turbulance and can identify with Dan's comments about keeping the rudder braced with feet. Even with feet in position and the rudder locked the aircraft wanted to yaw about the cg location. The result is a sensation of the tail sliding around at the back.

Richard

The later 6's have a balanced rudder (mine is a 2001 quick-build, but I started with a '97 emp). If the 6 you flew had a balanced rudder, we might have found the explanation. It seems logical that a balanced rudder might be more easily upset by a bump.
 
John,
Welcome neighbor, I've got a 7-A based in Bryson City. If your ready for that $60,000. ride just let me know. Woulde be more than happy to take you up some afternoon. Mark
 
Acro in a -7A = good time

Answering the question will a -7A perform well doing acro.

Yes, it does well. Basic positive G stuff like, aileron rolls, hesitation rolls, loops, split S's, spins, chandelles, wingovers, etc. Don't fly it negative uless you have the fuel and oil system for it.

I taught myself these basic manuevers in the plane at altitude based on acro I used to fly in a citabria with an instructor. Go up with someone in an acro plane and get used to it before you try it in your plane. It will be money well spent.

Jeff -7A 90hrs and counting.