nmontei

Member
Building a RV7 for aerobatics/fun flights

Hello, I'm currently building a Rv7 for aerobatics/fun flights, not a cross country cruiser. The wings are done along with tail and most of the fusalage. What I'm wondering is what you would do for a panel? I also have a IO360 that is 200hp and am currently thinking of putting a fixed pitch prop on it. (Ideas?). Keeping it light is pretty important I would think, so what would you guys/gals do if it was yours. Are their any other modifications you would make?

Thanks,
Nick
 
Aerobatics

Well, since no one else has jumped in here, here is my 2 cents worth. I agree you need to keep it light, but I would not consider putting a 200 HP engine in with a fix pitched prop. First, you don't want to ever over rev that engine while doing aerobatics, and second, you can bet once you get it built you will want to take some trips no matter how you feel now.

You can keep it light by limiting equipment, interior, paint, etc, but don't limit your total performance envelope.

Well, as I said, my 2 cents.

Dave
 
Coming from someone with a stick prop (a Catto), definitely go with the constant speed. You can keep it light by not splurging in other areas like interior and avionics. Keep a nice, simple panel and a spartan interior and I think you'll be there.

There are so many advantages to having the c/s that I am dreaming of that now. The other day I entered the pattern #2 in an overhead break with Kahuna's Super-8. This time I made sure I pulled the power to allllll the way idle and I still whizzed on by him at over 90 kts while he was down in the 70's. With that C/S that wouldn't happen.
 
VFR Panel

You can fly VFR fine (and legal I believe) with:
A - Airspeed indicator
B - Altimeter
C - Compass
D - Tachometer
E - Oil pressure gauge
F - Oil temperature gauge
G - Fuel gauge for each tank.
H - ELT

That's pretty barren though. Assuming no IFR at all, here's what I'd do:

1. Glass engine monitor - GRT, Dynon, or AFS would be the three I'd choose from.
2. Airspeed
3. Altimeter
4. G-Meter
5. Homemade Lift Reserve Indicator (about $60 in mat'l)
6. Panel dock for handheld GPS, a Garmin 496 would be my choice.
7. Panel mounted radio, an SL-40 or Icom A-200, otherwise a dock for a handheld with ship's power/antenna/intercom.
8. Transponder, probably a Garmin
9. ELT

George
 
Fixed has some advantages

I've also dreamed of a nice constant speed prop but for the time being will stick with my fixed pitch. I have a prince carbon fiber p-tip on my -8. 200hp Lyc. A-1B and am pretty happy with it. It weighs less than 11 lbs and obviously is pretty much mx free. It's a good 25 lbs or more lighter than most c/s props.
I climb about 15-1800 fpm and cruise at 170kts. Not the best of either world but still quiet acceptable.
I looked into changing to a c/s prop and may do so one day. At this point after the fact, it will be about 10K to change if you consider prop, governor, cables,misc. parts like spinner, backing plate etc., plus I would have to fly off more time since it's a major mod. New Weight and Balance, no biggie, but still small hassle.
Now, all that said, if I was at that stage in building I would definitely go with a c/s prop.
Good luck on the project.
 
grjtucson said:
You can fly VFR fine (and legal I believe) with:
A - Airspeed indicator
B - Altimeter
C - Compass
D - Tachometer
E - Oil pressure gauge
F - Oil temperature gauge
G - Fuel gauge for each tank.
H - ELT

That's pretty barren though. Assuming no IFR at all, here's what I'd do:

1. Glass engine monitor - GRT, Dynon, or AFS would be the three I'd choose from.
2. Airspeed
3. Altimeter
4. G-Meter
5. Homemade Lift Reserve Indicator (about $60 in mat'l)
6. Panel dock for handheld GPS, a Garmin 496 would be my choice.
7. Panel mounted radio, an SL-40 or Icom A-200, otherwise a dock for a handheld with ship's power/antenna/intercom.
8. Transponder, probably a Garmin
9. ELT

George
Go with the Dynon 180, you get all that stuff and more.
Then all you would have to add are the radio, transponder, ELT, and GPS. Easy and light.
 
For your mission, one choice

Aeerobatics = Constant speed prop (set it and forget, loop away)

Cross Country = Constant speed (more efficient by a few percent)

Bang for buck, value = Sensenich (but you are out of luck with a 200HP engine)

RV-7's are tail heavy and a Hartzell will be fine up front with the IO360.

jreekree: Has a good data point, but most 200HP IO360s fly with constant speed. A hartzell and gov is about $7,200, not $10k. A good carbon fixed prop is what now a days? $3000?
 
Last edited:
grjtucson said:
You can fly VFR fine (and legal I believe) with:
A - Airspeed indicator
B - Altimeter
C - Compass
D - Tachometer
E - Oil pressure gauge
F - Oil temperature gauge
G - Fuel gauge for each tank.
H - ELT
George,

You don't need any of that for VFR day. Last I checked, Part 91 min equipment regs apply only to standard category aircraft...
 
Oops!

dan said:
Last I checked, Part 91 min equipment regs apply only to standard category aircraft...

You're totally right and quite obviously I wasn't thinking - not the first time that's happened :eek:

George
 
I am building a plane for a combined fun/ cc but I am limited by budget, so my equipment will be similar to yours.

First, really think about the panel. I come from a Citabria so, I am used to a limited stack, but as to engine monitoring, I bought the GRT EIS 4000. I know it is a simple green LCD, but it will give you all the features you need. I bought a big, super bright warning light and installed it right in front. In my experience I generaly set up for a flight regime and only occaisionally monitor for changes, anything catastrophic will trigger the light and page the monitor immediately to the offending thing. The unit weighs ounces, it bulletproof, will survive startup, and was originally designed to survive in two cycle powered, open cockpit ultralights. In the future, if I wasnt an EFIS, the unit will send all the data to most units for graphical presentation.

As to comm and transponder the lightest/cheapest units are to be found in the glider world. I used an XCOM, because it has a real, and very nice, internal intercom with music capability, it weighs ounces, and it will fit without cutting the subpanel. I used a Micro Air transponder for the same reasons. The rest of the panel is an Airspeed, Altimeter, and ADI pilot. I wanted a single axis autopilot in case I get into clouds inadvertently. I already owned a Garmin 196 which is a great little unit for the budget minded.

Here is a picture:
dsc00562aq7.jpg


Next, although my goal was to build for less than $55,000 I did splurge on a CS prop. I did this because, I also went with an O-320, and the biggest performance hit with that choice is typically take off and climb. In addition, I wanted to use the Sam James cowl and Whirlwind was able to sell an extended hub for my prop at no additional charge. Finally, the 151 prop has given excellent performance and weighs only 28LBS with spinner.

Next, keep your systems simple and work to reduce wiring complexity and weight. I used the EXP Bus system, and would again, but only for a very simple panel...the system is limited when you have high paower draw units or alot of loads to connect. The system is nice because it includes a dimmer, an internal ammeter, and annunciation of faults.

I also did not prime internal panels. My father (former Helicopter Mechanic) and I came up with an approach where we deburred rivet lines by using scotchbright to scuff the rivet line, then each rivet line was alodined using an alodine pen. The alcald was left unmolested everywhere else. Primer adds weight, and depending on how you apply it may add alot of weight. Opinions vary on this, so ask around. I went this route after an experience with my Citabria which had unpainted 20204-t3 alclad ribs. Before I owned it, at one point it had sat in a farm field for 15 years. Fabric covered, wood spars and these ribs. Well A fuel truck backed into my wings and when I opened them for repair there was not an ounce of corrosion anywhere. JMHO

Consider carburetors instead of fuel injection. It saves alot of weigh and complexity. It will be easier to start and cheaper. After flying hundreds of hours will a fully inverted-capable aircraft, I can tell you that the number of times you will want to go negative G is very limited. I really did not enjoy those maneuvers. I also talked to an experienced RV6 pilot who has full inverted systems on his plane...the wing and belt system on the RV really makes negative maneuvers and inverted flight a clutsy thing in these planes. The downside to a carb is probably some fuel burn.

Consider a tail dragger, they weigh about 10lbs less, and are much easier, and more simple to plumb for things like brakes. I happen to prefer the look of a TD, and they are faster. Although Van reports only minimal difference, field report suggest about 5 or more knots difference.

Finally, leave out what you do not need. I put brakes on only one side, for example and mounted the resevoir on the pilot side reducing pedal weight, and hose length and hence weight. Also it is more simple, direct, and easier to bleed. I used push pull cables for engine controls, again, deadly simple, lighter, and easier to install or mainitain in the future. I do think that quadrants are much more cool though.

As to sound deadening, there is a product called Dyna Plate. It is adhesive backed, and made of some exotic aluminum material. It deadens sound better than the original (heavy) dynamat, and it is only about .032 thick and darn near weightless. The best price I found was www.onlinecarstereo.com

The reason I focused so much on weight and symplicity for my fun flyer is that it seems to be accepted fact that a light RV flies much better, and is much more enjoyable than a heavy RV. Simplicity is closely tied to weight and is, in all honesty, a philisophically attractive approach for me personally.

Again, these are just my thoughts and rational....opinions vary.