Wow, My heart goes out to the family and friends! God Speed you guys! From the video footage, this looks like a hard accident to understand.
 
They just released the names of the people onboard.

Ohio State Highway Patrol Lt. Rick Zwayer identified the pilot as 68-year-old Evan Wood, and the passenger as 73-year-old Walter Buchholz. Both men were from Punta Gorda, Fla. and took off from Bay City.
 
Unusual

Unusual impact for a stall spin if that's what happened, which is what it sounded like from the eyewitness description. :(
 
I agree

Looks like it plowed the field and flipped over...Unless it stalled on climbout...Maybe flying low and struck a wingtip??

Very sad whatever happened..:(

Frank
 
It can happen to any of us, anytime, and not just in an airplane. I just read a story in my local paper about three fatal car accidents in 18 hours. I was flying my C-150 the same time these gentlemen were attempting to land. As I do after every flight I thanked the Lord for allowing me to enjoy the most special activity of my life and bringing me back safely. I also make sure my wife knows that if by chance "something" should happen I was living life to its fullest and doing what I LOVED to do. God Bless these flyers, their families and the fraternal order of aviators.
 
Maybe it's just me, but the LAST thing I want anyone to say about me is "He died doing what he loved". I don't love any hobby enough to die for it. I've never really understood that saying.

I'm not picking on your post Tonard, just venting a little. I do agree with you that I say a little thanks every time I climb out of the cockpit.
 
Maybe it's just me, but the LAST thing I want anyone to say about me is "He died doing what he loved". I don't love any hobby enough to die for it. I've never really understood that saying.
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Its not just you, Randy, I'm also tired of seeing this comment being posted by the living. I suspect that those who have "died doing what they loved" would in those last terrifying moments gladly trade aviation for more time on this earth with their loved ones.
 
It's not that you want to die for flying.

f1rocket said:
Maybe it's just me, but the LAST thing I want anyone to say about me is "He died doing what he loved". I don't love any hobby enough to die for it. I've never really understood that saying.
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You would be just as dead if it were on the freeway during the commute to work or from a mistake flying close to the ground. The think that the above quote means if you are going to be dead, wouldn't it be better that you were enjoying your self to the utmost before it happened.

I want to pack as much aviation into my life as possible before I go.

Condolences to the loved ones of these fliers,

Kent
 
Sam Buchanan said:
Its not just you, Randy, I'm also tired of seeing this comment being posted by the living. I suspect that those who have "died doing what they loved" would in those last terrifying moments gladly trade aviation for more time on this earth with their loved ones.
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Sure they would, but would they have traded all of their less terrifying hours over all of the years that they have been passionate about flying for a less full life? I wouldn't. I know the risks, I mitigate them to the best of my ability, and I accept them in trade-off for the benefits I derive.

That said, yes, it is a trite phrase, but if you read the quote fully you will see that it was the widow's way of dealing with her grief, and I think we can and should allow for that. I would rather my widow say that than something else like "I'm going to sue sue sue."
 
...died doing what he loved?

While I understand not wanting to die for your hobby in this day and age, a few generations ago it was something to be realistic about. If the thought that "he died doing what he loved" gives comfort to those left behind, it's fine by me.

"I decided that if I could fly for ten years before I was killed in a crash, it would be a worthwhile trade for an ordinary life time." Charles A. Lindbergh

T.J.
 
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doin what i love

means he didnt die doing some fruitless **** like watching tv or being a spectator of some kind. he died while being the man in the arena. no doubt willing to make some trades at said such time, but none the less he didnt hide in the house a fat lazy coward. i'll take death right this minute if it means trading all the things ive done and loved over the years. like the old line "you can run but you cant hide" we will all get our chance, anyway.. YMMV
 
f1rocket said:
Maybe it's just me, but the LAST thing I want anyone to say about me is "He died doing what he loved". I don't love any hobby enough to die for it. I've never really understood that saying.
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The point being, I believe, that we realize that our hobby is dangerous and there is a possibility that it may kill us one day, but we conciously make the choice to engage in that hobby nonetheless. Personally, I realize that each time I crawl in the cockpit there is a possibility (remote, but real) that I'll be pried out of it with crowbars and shears - but I still crawl in it. I do my best to mitigate risk everywhere possible, and accept the remote possibility that something I have no control over may still go wrong and kill me, or that I may do "somethin' stupid" and prove Darwin right. Either way, I'm still willing to take the risk and enjoy the rewards, versus sitting on the couch and watching others do it. If it kills me, I'll die happy, and my family knows it.
 
Ted Johns said:
While I understand not wanting to die for your hobby in this day and age, a few generations ago it was something to be realistic about. If the thought that "he died doing what he loved" gives comfort to those left behind, it's fine by me.

"I decided that if I could fly for ten years before I was killed in a crash, it would be a worthwhile trade for an ordinary life time." Charles A. Lindbergh

T.J.
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Thanks for the quote, the same quote came to mind when I started reading this thread.

While some might quibble with number of years (including me), I agree with his sentiment. Knowing full well the risks involved, I would much rather live my life as an active pilot and risk an untimely death than to be a ground pounder, even if it meant a few less years with my loved ones.

Tom
 
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RV-7A passenger

Here's another link about one of the deceased.

http://tinyurl.com/yq82tx

The one ray of light in an otherwise dark time for the friends and family of Buchholz is that he died doing what he really loved, said Leishman.

?Walter was an incredible pilot and he loved to fly planes,? said Leishman. He could land a plane on a postage stamp, and I was lucky to be able to fly all over the place with him.
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Don
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
Unusual impact for a stall spin if that's what happened, which is what it sounded like from the eyewitness description. :(
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Possible, but based on the location of the accident I don't think this was the typical base to final or anything of that nature. The runway at KMRT is 9/27, and the accident site is listed as "near Weaver Rd" and ~1 mile South of the airport. This puts the scene almost due South, more in line with a downwind location. In addition, the flaps appear to be up so I doubt they were in landing configuration. The ailerons show a right roll, but It's hard to know if this was pre or post accident. Some of the pictures of the response personnel moving the plane show the aileron's in different positions.

frankh said:
Looks like it plowed the field and flipped over.
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The damage to the airframe and the ground marks indicate direct impact on the nose, not a gear first flip over.

I don't want to get too carried away with armchair analysis, but these things always get me thinking. As always, best thing is probably to wait until an investigation produces some more reliable info.

Until then, lets hope it at least helps the rest of us to be more aware.

Condolences to the families, and we'll keep them in our prayers.
 
Interesting but it can happen anywhere

FlyerJumper said:
Possible, but based on the location of the accident I don't think this was the typical base to final or anything of that nature.
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Interesting analysis, could be. However I would just add you can stall and spin anywhere and in any phase of flight. The fact the flaps where up means nothing except they where not down. They might have forgot. I keyed off of the witness that said they where going slow? I would think if they dove stright in from any height the damage would be greater. Any way I withdraw my comment about stalling, because I have no idea. It does looks like it went nose first, but I'll leave the analysis to the expert accident investigators with the data. Thoughts and prays to family and friends. :eek:
 
gmcjetpilot said:
I would just add you can stall and spin anywhere and in any phase of flight. The fact the flaps where up means nothing except they where not down. They might have forgot.
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I completely agree.

No need to withdraw any comments. Just pointing out some observations...
 
f1rocket said:
Maybe it's just me, but the LAST thing I want anyone to say about me is "He died doing what he loved". I don't love any hobby enough to die for it. I've never really understood that saying.

I'm not picking on your post Tonard, just venting a little. I do agree with you that I say a little thanks every time I climb out of the cockpit.
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It?s cool my post sparked such thoughtful debate. I have been an occasional visitor but never a participant. If I may expound on my original reasoning; I am a true and firm believer that our destiny is pre-determined. In other words ? when your number is picked, you?re outa here?! This comes from having a seemingly healthy friend die from lung cancer (never-ever smoked anything), my teenage daughter?s best friend develop meningitis and die in 3 days, a business associate?s 16 year old son take a lacrosse ball in the chest and die instantly. I could go on but you get the point. So with that said I prefer to take big bites out of life. I work hard and play harder. In addition to flying airplanes I have raced formula cars and currently race go-karts, I still ride my Harley regularly, I snowmobile and will play in a pick-up lacrosse or football game if my daughter?s boyfriend asks (I am 53 years old). When my wife?s friends ask her how she can ?allow? me to ?(fill in the blank) she tells them I am the same guy she fell for 33 years ago and couldn?t change me if she wanted to. And yes, I do carry a large life insurance policy.
 
Would airbags have helped?

From the pictures, it looks like the nose hit hard and I suspect they died from that - being slammed against that control panel. Would a set of airbags have helped them? If they were impacting at typical landing speeds, that wouldn't be much worse than a car accident - are airbags worth considering?

--REK
 
From some race car accident analysis and knowing the RV structure my wild estimate would be that the plane suffered a 65-85G deceleration- not survivable generally speaking without airbags, maybe with if it wasn't for the severe structural deformation, it could be on the border of being survivable with a good airbag system.

Very sad. The photos are pretty sickening. :(
 
Ned Rose who sometimes post here is a partner in this airplane so we might get details about it. It's the first crash that really hits home as I had met one of the pilots.
 
Very sorry for anyone who knows or is related to the two guys onboard.

It really is an odd situation. With the engine wrapped up and under the fuselage, it looks to me like they were moving generally horizontally (level), moving pretty fast *and* were inverted at impact. Possibly hit the light and/or dragging a wing then snapping upside down.
 
N395V said:
The above are snipped from 3 different posts. I agree that if the words give comfort to the family then their use is fine with me.

I recently had that terrifying experience and I am fortunate enough to be able to tell you that for the 15 to 20 seconds of terror (seemed like an hour)
I did not consider myself to be doing what I enjoyed most. At that moment I would gladly have traded aviation for a few more moments on this earth.

I am fat, I have become lazy, and my lifes record would make it difficult for one to consider me a coward but I freely admit as the trees and gully were approaching I was terrified and would have much preferred to be watching TV while woofing down a Dairy Queen Blizzard than flying an airplane.
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Milt, I for one am glad you are still around. Everyday honesty put out in a forthright manner is hard to find these days. Go have that Blizzard! :D
 
Presbyterian?

Tonard Bales said:
I am a true and firm believer that our destiny is pre-determined. In other words ? when your number is picked, you?re outa here?!
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Tonard,
I'm not sure the wisdom of debating issues of death with someone from Amityville, but here goes. :D
predestiny and "number is picked" are opposites. The former is self-explanatory - it's a certainty (to someone). The latter is random probability. Living a life full of high-risk activities certainly increases the probability of an untimely death, just like stuffing a lottery box will increase your chances of winning. If you believe that no matter your activity you will die at some determined time/place then it matters not that activity: skydiving or bathing. So, while you may believe predestiny, just like this stream shows - it's up to "others" to judge. If you die in your sleep "others" will say "I guess his number came up" while if you crash your airplane into race car being driven by a lacrosse player wearing a Harley shirt everyone will say you were just living dangerously and were a dumba__. :D
 
Thank you for the well thought out and articulated opinion. The only problem is if I died in my sleep everyone would say "I guess the dumb a__' number finally came up". I can't win so might as well have some fun.
By the way...what a group!
 
Tonard Bales said:
If I may expound on my original reasoning; I am a true and firm believer that our destiny is pre-determined. In other words ? when your number is picked, you?re outa here?! This comes from having a seemingly healthy friend die from lung cancer (never-ever smoked anything), my teenage daughter?s best friend develop meningitis and die in 3 days, a business associate?s 16 year old son take a lacrosse ball in the chest and die instantly. I could go on but you get the point. So with that said I prefer to take big bites out of life.
Click to expand...

The one that I always think of is that Pete Conrad died in a routine motorcycle mishap but survived a lifetime of ultra-risky flying/astronauting. Bottom line is you gotta live your life.
 
HS and Elevator damage

First off I am not an accident investigator but a trained engineer who is frequently called upon to perform failure reviews of complex failures.

I have studied several photos and aerial shots of the accident scene and damage to the aircraft and there are some very obvious damage to the aircraft?s empennage and landing gear that no one has discussed on the forum yet.

In most of the images it is apparent that the aircraft impacted the ground and rests in a near vertical position. In fact there is about 3 feet of the front of the aircraft possibly buried in the ground. From the aerial footage there is no sign of any sliding or skidding along the ground. So I believe the aircraft impacted near vertical.

This is an important assumption because if there is any damage aft of the wing leading edge it may have not have accrued when the aircraft impacted the ground vertically.

One of the first things I noticed was the right wheel pant and gear leg faring was damaged and partially missing. The left wheel pant and gear leg faring looked perfect.

The flaps, ailerons and wing tips looked perfect as well. Then I noticed something rather odd about the right horizontal stabilizer and elevator. It appears that the leading edges of the horizontal stabilizers are out of alignment. It looks like the right HS is pushed up (positive angle). Then if you look at the right elevator hinge line you see an unusually large gap. In addition you can see the left elevator appears to be in a neutral position but the starboard elevator appears to displaced (counterweight down). Then you see what appears along the hinge line (right) as a dark region. I believe this is a large dent/depression.

I started to wonder what could have caused this because this damage most likely didn?t occur when the aircraft impacted the ground.

So I researched more web info and I found a news story that mentioned that there were pieces of the aircraft left at the airport and that the aircraft clipped a 2 foot light.

Then the pieces starting coming together.

Here is what I believe may have happened.

When trying to land the aircraft clipped the light with the wheel pant then the tail came down and the HS hit the light which severely damaged the HS and elevator. At some point the right and left elevators became un-linked.

The NTSB will come out with their preliminary finding and we will all understand this accident better.

I am sure the pilot did the best he could with a very bad situation and my heart goes out to their family and friends.

Paul
 
speculation

Here is what I believe may have happened.

When trying to land the aircraft clipped the light with the wheel pant then the tail came down and the HS hit the light which severely damaged the HS and elevator. At some point the right and left elevators became un-linked.

The NTSB will come out with their preliminary finding and we will all understand this accident better.

I am sure the pilot did the best he could with a very bad situation and my heart goes out to their family and friends.

Paul
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i think you may be on to something... another possibility that might fit in with this line of speculation is that at many airports the reil lights are not "hard-mounted" -- there is a pipe set into the concrete, and then the light slides into the pipe -- designed to be "pulled out" should an aircraft contact them. so it seems possible to me that the wheel-pant clipped the reil light and pulled it from its socket, throwing it back into the horiz stab and damaging it.

please don't ask how i know this could happen.

i also feel for the family and friends of the pilot/passenger.

john
 
Paging Dr Frist

This is starting to sound like Senator Bill Frist from the senate floor diagnosing Terri Schiavo a 1000 miles away.

The prelim info report is out


NTSB Identification: CHI07LA150
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Monday, May 21, 2007 in Marysville, OH
Aircraft: Wood Vans RV7A, registration: N7259N
Injuries: 2 Fatal.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On May 21, 2007, about 0736 central daylight time, an experimental amateur-built Wood Vans RV7A, N7259N, sustained substantial damage on impact with a runway sign during landing and with terrain during a go around from runway 27 at the Union County Airport, near Marysville, Ohio. The personal flight was operating under 14 CFR Part 91. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. No flight plan was on file. The two occupants onboard the airplane, a commercial pilot and a private pilot, sustained fatal injuries. The flight departed from the James Clements Municipal Airport, near Bay City, Michigan, about 0615.

At 0653, the recorded weather at the Ohio State University Airport, near Columbus, Ohio, was: Wind 060 degrees at 6 knots; visibility 10 statute miles; sky condition overcast 2,300 feet; temperature 11 degrees; dew point 7 degrees C; altimeter 30.19 inches of mercury.
 
Updated AP story

Here's an updated AP story which indicates they hit a light at the runway and they damaged the landing gear.

http://tinyurl.com/3bdljv

I agree with Paul Merems above. From the initial helicopter camera video and also some of the still photos, it appears both the right wheel pant and the right side of the horizontal stabilizer suffered damage peculiar to the right side and markedly differing from the left side. It would appear the airplane may have been too low at (or prior to?) the threshold of the runway and clipped the light. Notice the light is said to have been two feet high.

My thinking is they came in too close on their approach to land, clipped the light, realized they had hit something and because the airplane was still flying, the PIC decided to keep flying to sort things out. We can all do the Monday morning quarterback thing and say they should have just cashed in their chips there and taken their lumps with a rough landing, but how many of us would do that with an airplane that is still flying? They probably thought they only damaged the wheel pant and it probably wasn't until after they had climbed to a a few hundred feet to sort things out that they either got distracted and got too slow or possibly the elevator control jammed and they lost control. Perhaps, remembering the Iowa DC-10 crash where pitch was controlled with throttle, they thought they could bring it around again by adjusting power, but it just didn't work. It does appear that they got into the classic stall/spin situation because the debris field is contained within a relatively small area as indicated by the yellow tape, and the farmer is an eyewitness who describes without aeronautic training an airplane coming down in a spin. I don't know what happened but these are possibilities. A good investigative team will put all the possibilities on a fault tree and go through each scenario.

It'll be awhile before the NTSB publishes their final report. Meanwhile, the families are deeply grieving while we who did not know them feel a kindred spirit because we know what it's like to fly an RV. My heart still hurts for the families, and yet I have never met any of them.

Don

P.S. Another point of interest is that the winds at a nearby reporting station were reported as 060 at 6 knots. The NTSB implies they were landing on runway 27. If they were approaching to land on runway 27, then they had a small tailwind component. Maybe not much, but perhaps it changed their descent profile on landing from what the PIC was accustomed to.
 
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Guys I heard a small sound-bite in the background of one of the reports and there might have been smoke in the cockpit...i heard a witness say they saw the plane smoking as it went down.
 
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