J

jtrusso

Well Known Member
I've been dreaming of building or buying an RV for about 5 years now, and have spent many hours of everyday over those past 5 years on this site reading about all things RV. I've done the homework and know that the RV is for me, it fits my mission and my wallet.

That being said I have stumbled upon an opportunity to be a 1/3 owner in a Glasair I that first flew in 1987. One of the partners is the original builder, a guy who I work with and have known for 10 years. It's an incredible deal, the cost being about 1/2 of what I'd have to pay to partner in a similarly equipped RV. The plane has a new (only 300 hours TT) O-360 from Mattituck and 3 blade CS prop (also only 300 TT). The plane is hangared at TOA and has been well cared for over it's life and has no damage history. One of the partners has moved and needs to sell his share.

As far as I can tell there are only 2 major difference between the Glasiar and then RV 6/7 1) the Glasair is plastic (ok, ok, glass and cloth, don't want to offend the composite guys :p) and 2) it stalls at a much higher speed, around 65kts.

What do you guys think? Would someone who lives/breathes/dreams RV 24/7/365 be happy with a partnership in a Glasiar? It seems I'd have all the speed/nimble handling at a much lower cost. I'm flying around in 172's and 182's right now, and the idea of cruising at 155kts is very appealing.
 
Sounds like a heck of a deal to me if the airplane is in good shape. Why not arrange a flight in it and then find a local RV to ride in for comparison?

On the same HP, the Glasair should be faster and will stall faster (as you noted). The Glasair I's had a reputation for aft CG, so you probably want to run the weight and balance numbers under your typical loading situations - light fuel solo, to full fuel plus bags, plus a passenger, just to make sure the airplane is a fit for your mission (s).
 
Same dream

X 182 owner - same dream, same drill. What I found when I interviewed a very nice GlassAir 1 was that I was not comfortable in the cockpit at all. I am 6' broad shouldered stocky guy and it was crowded around the legs and shoulders. I felt the whole time like I was leaning in towards the center of the plane. Even worse was that I was not comfortable on the pedals at all. I could not seem to get my feet worked around to where I was comfortable on the pedals and it was a very uneasy flight for me. They are really neat airplanes but once you slide in there is not much movement. I felt like a sardine in there. In my 7A I can move my legs and body around even with 2 in the cockpit and it is just so much more comfortable. Definately go fly one it if you can. It might be a better fit for you......Just my $.02

CraigM
Flying 7A
 
glasair

I flew a 160 hp Glasair I taildragger about 60 hours. I did the initial test flight, all the test time and checked the owner out. I am 6' tall with long legs and built some rudder cable extenders to gain leg room. These are just metal straps that extend the rudder cables. I flew the airplane from Texas to Oshkosh and was ok comfort wise, but no excess room. The seat back is just a flat piece of fiberglas and this could be modified for a bit of extra room. I did all the loop roll maneuvers on most of the test flights. No spins. I found the stall very docile. Speed on short final can be just a couple knots above stall in calm conditions, it will still float a bit. The big negative is lack of rudder control at slow speed on takeoff. I did most of my flying off a rough grass strip, and much of the time had a left crosswind. FULL RUDDER will not keep the airplane straight, some braking is required to keep it straight. This is only a problem on takeoff and only on a rough surface. And this airplane had the big rudder. I also had a couiple flights in other I's, one taildragger one trike.
Overall I am very impressed with the airplane. The unstarted and partially finished kits are real bargains.
 
Things to keep in mind...

The RV will fill more missions than the Glasair. The RV has more room inside, can take off and land shorter, and even in a tailwheel version you can see over the nose if you stretch.

Buying a share in an airplane that someone built and still owns a share in is prone to difficulty. It will always be "their" airplane, and you are just contributing to it. New O-360 and three-bladed prop? That's what "partners" are for... To pay for these expensive upgrades. Personally I wouldn't want the emotional baggage that arrangement would come with, but that's just me.

All that being said, the Glasair *is* extremely nice to fly, and will probably outrun any RV... :)
 
Take it for a two hour trip with a partner........ then decide..... only after you have done a 2 hour trip in an RV.
 
VS

The pain of the lesser plane lingers long after the pleasure of a cheep price is forgotten.
 
A friend has built both a -7A and GlasAir II. Both planes have IO-360 180 HP engines. The Glasair is 20 knots faster but his minimum airport length is 3000?. He has about 60 hours on the Glasair and said that maybe when he gets up to 150 hours or so, he will be comfortable taking it into my home airport (2300? w/ trees).

He sold the -7A after finishing up the Glasair and I asked him which he liked better. His answer was an unequivocal the RV. He said the Glasair is more stable and a good long distance cruiser but he really wishes he had kept the RV and sold the Glasair. He went on to say that the RV just handled better.

As for fit, he is well over 6?-5? and fits in both. The again, he moved things around in the Glasair so he would fit.
 
A lot depends on what kind of flying you like to do. Obviously you can go places in both airplanes. But if you like doing acro, formation flying, and going to fly-ins at 2000 ft long grass strips, you might want to go with the RV over the Glasair.
 
First let me say a big Thank You to everyone who has taken the time to repond.

Jaypratt said:
The pain of the lesser plane lingers long after the pleasure of a cheep price is forgotten.
Click to expand...

This quote has run through my mind...several times, and definitely gives me pause.

Here's a little more background on me and my mission. I've got about 300 hours in the logbook, mostly 172 time. So far I have exclusively landed at airports with paved runways. 99.99% of my flying will be to airports with paved runways. I would like to checkout some of the dirt strips in the high desert, like the chicken strip (1,500', one way in/out, no go around), but that is not my primary mission. I want a plane that can take 2 people 300 - 500 miles quickly with a reasonable amount of baggage.

I don't think partnering with the original builder will be a problem for a few reasons. First, he's always had partners in the airplane. Three people built it originally but the other two have since sold their shares. Second, I've known this guy for quite a while and I know his personality. I do believe he would make a good partner, not the overly controlling/possessive type.

I plan on test flying the Glasiar this weekend and I will compare it against the memory fo the 1 RV flight I've had, back in 2006.
 
The "what you would like to do" part is something the Glasair simply isn't capable of. Unfortunately. Even if you could get into and out of tight strips like that, the gravel will wreak havoc on the fibreglass. If you're completely happy having paved strips as your only option, the Glasair will be an excellent airplane.

Another consideration: What do the rest of the people you will be flying with fly? If it's RV's, you're likely to spend a lot of time trying to convince them to forego the quaint little grass strips in favour of the larger paved one so you can come along too.
 
Glasair 1 vs RV 7

Hi John,

I have been fortunate enough to fly both these aircraft. The Glasair 1 RG with tip tanks ran a 200hp with a 3 blade Hoffmann and my RV7 has 200 hp and a Hartzell BA. The Glasair at 24"/WOT 2400 rpm 50 ROP cruises at 177-180ktas @ FL 60-90 and the RV7 gives 172-175ktas at the same power and levels. Both aircraft were running a plenum. All tests were carried out at around ISA (UK spring) The Glasair maintains performance up to Fl120 and the RV starts to lose out at around a 1ktas per 1000ft off the power settings given above FL100. The RV performance suffered less as a result of increased weight (both aircraft were tested to the Glasair MTOW of 2200lbs (yes I know! it was for a special mission and the RV now does not exceed 1800 lbs)

There are a number of negatives with the Glasair 1 which is why they designed the Glasair 2, the cons outweigh the benefits in my view. Although the Glasair 1 is faster than a standard RV of the same power, the ride is marginal particularly in directional damping and this is verified in that initially a larger rudder was supplied and further the fuselage was lengthened (19"?) on the now standard Glasair 2. Any disturbance especially in turbulence makes the aircraft take on the properties of a windscreen wiper, so you often find that you have to slow down to RV cruise figures anyway. If you fly even slightly out of balance you inadvertantly transfer fuel to the low wing as there is no separate tank selection so, trim in roll is often required. There are no such issues with the RV7 which handles and flys beautifully (my RV7 has a small fin and rudder)

Glasair visibility can be an issue due to the canopy bow, the small windscreen and the fact that you are reclined.Seeing out is particularly important in view of your high cruising speeds. The footwell is cramped for size 9 Skechers. The aircraft is cramped for 2 average sized gentlemen. The aircraft is in my view harder to work on because it is generally tighter packaged.
The RV is far more spacious goes further and is far more versatile in terms of operation, personally I find the less reclined seating position more comfortable. The visibility is far less obstructed.The RV is easier to work on

Although it was a while back I evaluated both aircraft for a long solo trip and I am very glad that I chose the RV, for I believe that if I had gone with the Glasair 1 that I tested, I may not be typing this now!
If you are at TOA stroll round and chat to Walter Tondu or Dave Richardson; I am sure that if you ask them nicely they will give you a ride for some fuel.

In summary the RV is slightly slower, is easier to service and maintain, and is more versatile to operate and most importantly for the Socal environment you can see out better

Hope this helps
Nouj
 
Nouj,

Thanks for the response, it was very insightful and exactly the kind of comparison data I was looking for.

I had the chance to fly the Glasair on Saturday. Here are the pros/cons:

pros:
1) It's fast! We were doing 180kts on 11gph.
2) It handles very well. Level flight, steep turns, stalls, slow flight, it was all a breeze. The plane had nice control harmony too. The control forces seemed slightly heavier than I remember the RV7 being. It stalled slower than I expected, closer to 55 knots. This plane was outfitted with the larger rudder.
3) There is great visibility out the top/sides
4) It's pretty quiet at 25/25
5) My skis fit inside no problem and it doesn't throw out the CG (double checked that one). 6) it's well equipped and has a really nice S-Tec auto pilot

cons:
1) The forward visibility is pretty poor. The windscreen is small and the panel is tall. I'll need a thicker cushion to see over the nose.
2) The reclined seating position will take some getting used to. It's like sitting on the floor with your legs stretched out in front of you.
3) I don't think the wife will like it...but then again she's not a big fan of flying in the first place

So now I've got a lot of thinking/soul searching to do. I think the Glasair is a really nice flying airplane. I really enjoyed flying it. I think I'll take another flight, a longer one to see how it feels to fly Xcountry in it. Also I'd like to get the wife to sit in it and an RV for comparison. Any other thoughts/suggestions for me?
 
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What's your mission?? Things change...

I find this question posed a lot, but I think it misses a few points. I had no idea my mission would be to do aerobatics, formation flying, short fields, etc... until after I was flying my RV.
The RV is one of the most versatile products out there and you never know how that might change your future "missions".
 
The Quickie also has a reclined sitting position. I actually like it quite a bit. The first time I ever sat in one, I was like ooooo nice, just like the Camaro I used to have :)

Saw a Glassair III at a recent fly-in. What a sweet looking machine.
 
good point, somthing to think about

JonJay said:
I find this question posed a lot, but I think it misses a few points. I had no idea my mission would be to do aerobatics, formation flying, short fields, etc... until after I was flying my RV.
The RV is one of the most versatile products out there and you never know how that might change your future "missions".
Click to expand...

That's a good point, one I haven't thought of before. The last 14 years of my flying career has all been flying solo, maybe with a passanger or two, but never with another, let alone a group, of airplanes. I'm planning on trying to be more social within the RV community once I get an airplane that can keep up with an RV, even if it's not an RV. As noted above though, formation and flights to rough/short strips are probably out of the question.
 
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