A

Air One

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Looking for a new fixed pitch prop for the RV4. More interested in cruise than climb and was wondering what my options are? We have an O-320 and figure that this has already been tested by other members.
 
The Sensenich metal prop (70CM) is a durable prop that gives good performance. It puts the weight out front where you need it.

The cons are that it is rough as ****. Mine is balanced and still has more vibration that I think should not be there. Others I have flown feel the same. It's also costly because I believe it's certified now.

Most owners of this prop I've talked to want a Catto but the cost and downtime mean it's not a simple bolt on replacement.

If it were mine and this was the first prop on the airplane I'd go Catto with a heavy crush plate up front.
 
Michael, a friend of mine has just removed an Ed Sterba prop in excellent condition, complete with a spinner, back plate, crush plate and prop extension.

Call Ray Lawrence at 478 232 95 six oh.

Best,
 
RV4 prop

I am using the sensenich with the 80 pitch on my 160 hp. this work great but as Sid Lambert mention, vibration is present. My choice went for durability as i land on gravel airstrip. i had a bad experience with wood prop that develop a crack just after few run-up! that make an expensive decoration.

you will enjoy your 4 these are delight to fly

have fun

Michel
CGVFR:D
 
RV-4 prop

I have had both the Sensenich and currently a Catto prop. I was very happy with the sensenich prop and it was a better cruise prop than the catto I have now. I wish I hadn't sold it. It has been certified since day 1 by the way.

I don't find the catto much smoother as I have had my carb float bowl shaken loose by the catto twice now. I could feel the power pulses more with the metal prop but I think it was smoother. The catto has been dynamically balanced but it doesn't track near as well as the metal prop did.
160 hp rv-4

cm
 
i have an aymar-demuth 68x72 ser#04661 wood prop for an 0-320 that i got with the rv-3. it is in excellent condition and has 315 hours total time before installing a 2 blade catto.

i'll take $1000 for it and pay shipping to the lower 48 and return shipping if you open the box and don't like it.

contact.

hank canup
helo services llc
 
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Metal Sensenich

The RV-4 that I bought recently has the metal Sensenich on it. It previously had several different wood propellers. The previous owner wanted a prop that was more all weather friendly. I haven't flown any others, but I see no down side, except for the hard and fast limit at 2600 RPM. Short of aerobatics it shouldn't be a problem.

I don't have much of a frame of reference, but it doesn't seem un-smooth to me. On a 160 HP O-320 I get 160-165 MPH at 2300 RPM @ 3500'. I also see upwards of 1500 FPM in climb at low altitudes @ 120 MPH. The airplane is heavy, as is the pilot, so I am always close to max gross.
 
Seek and ye shall find...

Air One said:
Looking for a new fixed pitch prop for the RV4. More interested in cruise than climb and was wondering what my options are? We have an O-320 and figure that this has already been tested by other members.
Click to expand...

Hi Michael,
First and foremost, welcome to the Forums! Air One is a great radio station BTW. www.air1.com
I tested Nine different props on my RV4 over a 10 years period including the first Catto prop on an RV. Much depends on what type flying you will do. I like aerobatics, landing on short unimproved strips,(I live on one!) high altitude max performance and quick revving on takeoff. Oh did I mention rain and gravel protection?
All that said, I still rate props:
1. Craig Catto's new 2-blade with Nickel LEP as the best prop overall for the money for the 0-320.
2. Close second would be the MT 2-Blade FP.
3. Gary Hertzler's Silver Bullet.

There is a virtual wealth of information on any given subject in previous threads, especially this one. Here is just one: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=16430&highlight=rv4+propellers Just hit the search tab above, type in your question and voila'...there are no new questions, only new folks.

Happy hunting...
V/R
Smokey
Dues gladly paid in Iraq...
Gladly paid to DR anyway...

PS: I don't like the Sensenich Metal FP for my type flying. I owned one for 2 weeks and happily removed it. It's heavier, has the dreaded flywheel effect during low speed acro and has a Max RPM restriction at 2600. I like getting rated power at full throttle at 10,000'. That last 100 RPM really makes a difference in the mountains. (The 0-320 (shorter stoke) really comes into it's own between 2700 and 2850). Who care's if your prop is certified, if your airplane isn't. However Craig Catto just got FAA approval for his 3 blade Super Cub prop. The MT is also certified, for what that's worth :)
www.cattoprops.com
http://www.mt-propellerusa.com/en/mtusa/products.htm
[email protected]

Don't discount the Sensenich Ground Adjustable Composite or the Whirlwind equivalent GA prop. Both work very well but cost a bit more.
 
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One caveat on a Catto prop - you'll get what you ask for :)

What I mean is that Craig has created a very accurate set of models and based on the data and requirements you give him, he will build that propeller.

I asked Craig for a pure cruise propeller because I mostly do cross country flying and my prior experience off of my 1900' grass strip suggested I had more than enough take-off distance to give up a little in favor of cruise. Craig built exactly what I asked for. In retrospect, I probably should have sacrificed a knot or two at the top end for a little more climb.
 
Ditto that!!

humptybump said:
One caveat on a Catto prop - you'll get what you ask for :)

What I mean is that Craig has created a very accurate set of models and based on the data and requirements you give him, he will build that propeller.

I asked Craig for a pure cruise propeller because I mostly do cross country flying and my prior experience off of my 1900' grass strip suggested I had more than enough take-off distance to give up a little in favor of cruise. Craig built exactly what I asked for. In retrospect, I probably should have sacrificed a knot or two at the top end for a little more climb.
Click to expand...

I chatted with Craig and read all Smoky Ray's info, and the cold hard facts are, a two bladed prop on an O-320 160 horse or less gives better performance than a 3 blade. The 3 blade evidently does better mated to a higher horsepower engine. (Mel has a 170+ hp O-320 and is very satisfied.) But the 3 blade looks so doggone good parked on a ramp. (So I'm shallow :p) They told me!! I had, still have, an Aymar Demuth that gave me excellent performance. I told Craig I want cruise as I'm mostly a flat lander and he gave me a great 3 blade prop. I love it; but, will admit it doesn't have "quite" the performance of the Aymar Demuth. It just doesn't. I surely love looking at it though. :D

So yes, Craig really tries to accomodate, it's your money after all.

Cheers,
 
No substitute...

humptybump said:
One caveat on a Catto prop - you'll get what you ask for :)

What I mean is that Craig has created a very accurate set of models and based on the data and requirements you give him, he will build that propeller.

I asked Craig for a pure cruise propeller because I mostly do cross country flying and my prior experience off of my 1900' grass strip suggested I had more than enough take-off distance to give up a little in favor of cruise. Craig built exactly what I asked for. In retrospect, I probably should have sacrificed a knot or two at the top end for a little more climb.
Click to expand...

I learned a long time ago when flying our family Cessna 120 out of my home strip (1200')There is no substitute for HP or in this case RPM. We always had a climb prop on the 120 and I could still outrun all the local "competition" with their coarse pitch props. Now I live on my own 1800' soft, rough strip with trees and both ends and year round warm weather. Hmmm...

What I found in much testing on my RV4 was you really need 2100 static/2200 initial climb. Propellers develop power at low speed from the first 1/3 of the blade (hub section) for STOL takeoffs and initial climb. The last 70% of the blade and the tip is where the speed comes from. Back in 98' Craig loaned me a Glasair prop to test for his first RV model. It was coarse pitch, and took awhile to turn up. Takeoff was slow and the blade diameter was too long but it was smooth and a light year ahead of my previous Sterba. Craig found the perfect match in a 70" diameter 2 blade prop which he masterfully produced. I used that prop for 10 years.
His current design with Nickel LEP is far superior and I have the prototype bolted on my RVX. I didn't specify climb or cruise to Craig but RPM ranges. I wanted rated RPM at WOT/11,500'. To get that you will actually turn up 2800+ at Sea Level WOT.(=176 KIAS) Not a big deal if you understand the Lycoming. The cool part is my current Catto perfectly matches MP/RPM at Sea Level. I have raced several RV's, all of higher HP and all with Hartzell C/S. So far I have kept up with all of them, with only 150HP out front.

So, what's my point? To get the most out of your 0-320, plan on turning it up at lower altitudes and rated at higher altitudes. Trust me, you'll love it.....:)

My 2 Dos Centavos...

V/R
Merry Christmas!
Smokey


RVX With "New" Catto 2-Blade
 
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Spot on!

Craig hit my top RPM exactly where we agreed and we targeted "altitude cruise" as the goal.

I've looked a video of my take offs from my Aymar Demuth and the Catto. While my gut said i was longer on the role with my Catto, the truth is they look nearly identical. What is interesting is the AD prop turns 2310 rpm static and the Catto turns 2050 rpm static under similar environmental settings.

"when you don't have the HP, have a Catto ... and when you do have the HP, have a bigger Catto!"
 
Micheal;
You didn't state a preference for a new expensive prop, with a waiting period for delivery, or if you are poor and need a value priced prop, and maybe need it right away.
My son Peter and I both have older planes, a Thorp T-18, and an RV-4. They fly very well on Ted Hendrickson props. Aymar Demuth and other older props are very good units, even if they are not as fine as the current offerings.
If you are short on $$ or need a prop right now, you could do a lot worse than taking up these offers to 'try out' and maybe buy a used prop.
Wood props are a wonder. Mine gives 2250 RPM static, and 2700+ full @ 2500 msl. Very close to Smokey's recomendation.
I'm a neophite, but I've done a few repairs and some refinishing, it's not difficult, and very satisfying, just like building your plane.
Also, I have a Catto on my RV-8 project, which hasn't flown yet, but I get a good run up and taxi so far...:D
 
Scotty is right. As much as I am a happy Catto owner, my plane originally had an Aymar Demuth 69-71. It worked well and the real reason for the upgrade was to get the metal leading edges.

That said, I re-finished my Aymar Demuth to match my aircraft and it worked so well that I really can't bring myself give it up. I suspect I'll bolt it back up sooner than later.

You may find some who diss the Aymar Demuth props but I really like mine ... enough to keep it as my second prop.
 
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