J

joerandompilot

I'm New Here
I've got several hundred hours of flight time in Pitts S-2A's, S-2B's and S-2C's, but none in any RV.

How does the handling of an RV-4 compare with the various Pitts models? I know that the RV isn't a dedicated aerobatics mount like the Pitts, and therefore wouldn't expect it to be as capable as the Pitts w.r.t. hard-core aerobatics.

However, I'm curious about things like roll rate, takeoff/climb performance, ground handling, and so on, and in particular how those compare to an S-2B, for example.

If anyone has some reasonable amount of time in the two, I'd love to get your thoughts on the differences between the two.
 
pitts rules everything aerobatic! controls are crisper roll rate twice as fast much more rudder. rv rules everything else. ground handling docile,over cowl view better. landing rollout peace of cake. better speed less fuel.
 
........and you can actually see the runway..

.......on final!!:D:D Seriously, any Pitts pilot should have no problem with any of the RV taildraggers. It's built more for fast, economical trips at a low cost, whereas the Pitts was almost strictly designed for competitive aerobatics.

Regards,
 
Two is better than one...

Pierre,

Hence the argument, "you gotta have two airplanes" is valid! After 13 years in my RV4 and having Pitts time, the RV4 is the most overall bang for the buck.
Of course, the F16 is the most bang for all of our bucks!:)

Smokey
HR2
 
Thanks ..

Thanks for the input. I'm thinking of exchanging my Pitts for an RV. I've essentially gotten burnt out flying competition aerobatics for the last almost 10 years and find that I'm just not flying my Pitts enough. These days I find I'm enjoying flying to small airstrips more than going out and doing the same old mission (acro) again and again. And while a Pitts is an extremely competent short and soft field aircraft, it isn't the world's most comfortable commuter. After about an hour in it, I'm ready for the masseuse.

From what everyone has been saying (not just here, but friends), an RV-4 is a very versatile airplane and if you have a hankering for some light rolls or loops, it is a fine airplane.
 
You'll find the RV-4 heavier on the controls, slower in roll (140-150 deg./sec. vs. 240 deg./sec. for the Pitts). You'll get 700-1000 ft./min. more climb rate from the Pitts, but the RV-4 will get off the ground much shorter, though not a lot faster. Stall is about 10 mph faster in the Pitts, and lacks that feathery light "floaty" feel of the RV-4 in ground effect. The RV is less willing to stall/spin. Ground handling a non-event in the RV. You probably won't completely see over the nose on the ground in the RV, but it's pretty close. You may give up some aerobatic capability, but you might also really enjoy the "cub-like" low speed characteristics. Of course, you can also cruise at the same speed, burning half the gas in the RV.
 
Joe.......

There are quite few guys flying their-4's in the Sportsman category and they're not slouches. The plane has a lot more aerobatic capability than most of its owners.

Google "Groucho" on here and watch him do cloverleafs in his non-inverted -6 or -7.....I forget.

Regards,
 
Sports-man

I competed in the Sportsman category in my 150HP RV4 with non inverted Fuel/oil many times. With practice, it can hold it's own against anyone. My favorite activity is dogfighting where the RV4 really shines. I suprised several Pitt's and Extra 300 drivers over the years. The only superior light plane is the Harmon Rocket, and mainly in the vertical.

You can never have too much power...

Smokey
HR2
 
smokyray said:
I competed in the Sportsman category in my 150HP RV4 with non inverted Fuel/oil many times. With practice, it can hold it's own against anyone. My favorite activity is dogfighting where the RV4 really shines. I suprised several Pitt's and Extra 300 drivers over the years. The only superior light plane is the Harmon Rocket, and mainly in the vertical.

You can never have too much power...

Smokey
HR2
Click to expand...

Smokey,

Was it the plane or pilot that prevailed?

I've seen that more than once in auto racing where a good driver could best a bad driver in a superior car.
 
Yeah but.......

smokyray said:
...............My favorite activity is dogfighting where the RV4 really shines. I suprised several Pitt's and Extra 300 drivers over the years. The only superior light plane is the Harmon Rocket, and mainly in the vertical.

You can never have too much power...

Smokey
HR2
Click to expand...


.......you were taught dogfighting by the best in the world IMHO!

Regards,
 
Spray Pilots are the best pilots...

I don't know what you've heard but I heard spray pilots were the best...:)

Smokey
HR2
 
joerandompilot said:
I've got several hundred hours of flight time in Pitts S-2A's, S-2B's and S-2C's, but none in any RV.

How does the handling of an RV-4 compare with the various Pitts models? I know that the RV isn't a dedicated aerobatics mount like the Pitts, and therefore wouldn't expect it to be as capable as the Pitts w.r.t. hard-core aerobatics.

However, I'm curious about things like roll rate, takeoff/climb performance, ground handling, and so on, and in particular how those compare to an S-2B, for example.

If anyone has some reasonable amount of time in the two, I'd love to get your thoughts on the differences between the two.
Click to expand...

I have built 4 pitts. 3 x S1-S and and rebuilt an S2-A. The S1-A Pitts is the ultimate nimble aerobatic plane ever, especially in roll. The fact is you can flick-roll a Pitts. Doing the same in an RV4 is in my humble oppinion not recomended if you want to be old rather than bold. I wonder if the RV8 disaster in the late 90's was due to someone trying a hard flick roll?? Aerobatics in an RV-4 is a diferent ball game all together. Because the 4 has 5 feet of wing more than a Pitts the roll rate has to be much slower in the 4. Also I personally would not try and emulate Pitts aero's in a 4. On the plus side, relative to ground handling, I would class an RV4 as half way between a Pitts and a C150. There is no 'S'ing whilst taxiing, as you don't have 8 feet of cowling, passengers head etc in front of you, blocking your view ahead. The takeoff in my 4, which has a Superior XP-IO-360 and blended airfoil Hartzell, is more balistic than any Pitts I have ever owned. You really get a huge punch in the back from when you start to roll and all the way up to circuit height. Even then any forward push on the throttle in the cruise brings the push back again, regardless of speed. The pitts has much airframe drag, as you would expect from a bi-plane. With it's flush riveting The 4 is the total opposite. care not to exceed VNE must be taken when pointing down hill to make the houses bigger. The landing is easier than in a Pitts. For a start the approach speed in a 4 is not 90 MPH and you don't need to sideslip to see, not only the runway but also the airfield, like you do in a Pitts (Thats how we are taught to land a Pitts in the UK by the way). I find the flare and float about the same in the 4 as in the Pitts. The best bit of the landing in a 4 is not having to pedel half as much as you need to in a Pitts, to keep it going straight. This is due to the fact that the Pitts is much shorter in the fuselage than the 4. In other words the Pitts is much shorter coupled than the 4. In comparison with the Pitts, the 4 is a pussycat during all aspects of the landing, especially easy to keep straight during the landing roll. In my experience a Pitts landing is not over untill you pull up outside tha hangar. Having said that flying a Pitts is the best fun you will ever have with your clothes on. There are those that can land and there's those that can land a Pitts. I love my 4, as I built it to look good and safely take me places -- FAST!! These are my own personal opinions, formed after 44 years as a pilot. Happy Landings and keep it safe. G-MUMY
 
Sounds like a good exchange to me. Having owned a great little Pitts S1S and also an RV8, I would say that the RV wins hands down in all but the aerobatic department. Most Pitts flying is a 20 minute blast around the block, whilst the RV opens so many more doors.


joerandompilot said:
Thanks for the input. I'm thinking of exchanging my Pitts for an RV. I've essentially gotten burnt out flying competition aerobatics for the last almost 10 years and find that I'm just not flying my Pitts enough. These days I find I'm enjoying flying to small airstrips more than going out and doing the same old mission (acro) again and again. And while a Pitts is an extremely competent short and soft field aircraft, it isn't the world's most comfortable commuter. After about an hour in it, I'm ready for the masseuse.

From what everyone has been saying (not just here, but friends), an RV-4 is a very versatile airplane and if you have a hankering for some light rolls or loops, it is a fine airplane.
Click to expand...
 
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