[Flyingdreamz]

I am working on a project/feasibility study with Middle Georgia State College for a student built and flown RV-12. Part of this study is figure out the operating per hour, now I can run the numbers that vans says and put together with the average annual/100 hour (providing that the aircraft operates under a structured flight training program for ?Experimental aircraft specific make and model initial training?) cost to get the per hour cost. However, I figured the community would have a more realistic cost per hour. So If you could please provide any data, either on the forum or through private that would be extremely helpful for the project.

A little bit about the project, about 20 students at Middle Georgia State College in Eastman, Georgia have expressed an interest in building an airplane to reinforce skills that where learned in the class room. This would cover all 3 of the 4 major disciplines taught by the college, Flight Management, Aviation Maintenance and Production, and Airport/Airline Management. Being one of the 20 students and leading the project it was my job as dictated by the college to create a feasibility study in the areas of cost, legality, operation and safety from concept to flight for the project. Our goal is to start building in September of this year providing that we convince the college, the rest of the student body, and the University system of Georgia that this is something that should endorse. This will be an aircraft built, managed, and flown by students (under the advisement of certified A&Ps and aviation experts at Middle Georgia State) who all have a passion and love for aviation.

 

[BobTurner]

One important place to start is to ask the college what kind of liability insurance they might want. Anything over $100,000 per passenger, limit of $1,000,000 total, is hard to get. Then go to an aviation insurance broker and ask them for an estimate. They will want to know the number and qualifications (flight experience) of people who will be flying the airplane. If that number is more than 4 or 5 be prepared for a quote in the multi thousands of dollars, they will treat you like a flight school.

 

[Flyingdreamz]

One important place to start is to ask the college what kind of liability insurance they might want. Anything over $100,000 per passenger, limit of $1,000,000 total, is hard to get. Then go to an aviation insurance broker and ask them for an estimate. They will want to know the number and qualifications (flight experience) of people who will be flying the airplane. If that number is more than 4 or 5 be prepared for a quote in the multi thousands of dollars, they will treat you like a flight school.

The nice thing with working with the college is that it would be at the end of the day owned by the state of Georgia, and the flight department at the college, who manages insurance has figured this out already. They where the first department on board, and providing this going well, there is talk about bring one or two S-LSA -12 on board to join the part 141 fleet. Also at one point we had a RV-4, RV-6 and a CH701, all at different times that had operated within the fleet the school has. Also the school as has asked that all pilots of the aircraft would be ones that had at least a PPL with a check out with the Chief flight instructor of the college, and the aircraft could only be operated with in the confines of the flight departments standard operating procedures (which limit where the aircraft can go, who can be in the aircraft- PIC and flight instructors only).

Maybe I should have been more clear to say "not including insurance". This proposal/study is more for the non-aviation side of the college.

 

[RFSchaller]

$10/hr engine overhaul or replacement
$18 /hr auto gas
$1.50 / hr oil changes
$2 /hr parts and supplies for self performed annual
$11/hr insurance

Based on 100 hr per year. Maybe not typical but at least a point on the Gaussian curve. Excludes any "aw Sh%#" unexpected repairs.

 

[Flyingdreamz]

$10/hr engine overhaul or replacement
$18 /hr auto gas
$1.50 / hr oil changes
$2 /hr parts and supplies for self performed annual
$11/hr insurance

Based on 100 hr per year. Maybe not typical but at least a point on the Gaussian curve. Excludes any "aw Sh%#" unexpected repairs.

Thanks, just what I needed.

 

[videobobk]

We figure the cost of the RV-12 we are using for flight training here at $43/hr, almost exactly what was quoted above. It is getting more than 100 hours per year, more like 150.

We are talking to several universities about doing Eagle's Nest Projects; one is planning to start this fall. To this point, we have the only E-LSAs insured for flight instruction, through solo. Insurance isn't easy to find for this. One plane is here in Indiana, and one in Texas. One in Florida will come on line very soon. Since you are planning a project very similar, you might be interested in ENP. If so give me a call. (eight 1 2) 701-54 five four.

Bob Kelly
Founder, ENP

 

[RFSchaller]

Bob,

My guess is the major cost driver for your school is insurance. I used to do some free lance primary instruction in a Cessna 150. It cost me $2000 per year for just liability coverage. A far cry from the $1100 per year I pay for hull and liability that I pay on my ELSA RV-12.

Rich

 

[Flyingdreamz]

We figure the cost of the RV-12 we are using for flight training here at $43/hr, almost exactly what was quoted above. It is getting more than 100 hours per year, more like 150.

We are talking to several universities about doing Eagle's Nest Projects; one is planning to start this fall. To this point, we have the only E-LSAs insured for flight instruction, through solo. Insurance isn't easy to find for this. One plane is here in Indiana, and one in Texas. One in Florida will come on line very soon. Since you are planning a project very similar, you might be interested in ENP. If so give me a call. (eight 1 2) 701-54 five four.

Bob Kelly
Founder, ENP

Currently this project is in limbo, the Aviation school wants to do everything in house, but then at the same time the main campus does not want to have any liability in the project. Whats strange is the college takes on that liability with our certified Pipers by doing all inspections, major air frame repairs, and complete aircraft overhauls. We would like to start this fall however, as the days go buy I see that slipping, as well with the goal of making it to Oshkosh 15 or Sun N' Fun 16.

Insurance seems to be something the MGSC Flight department has figured out however, its not information I have been privileged too yet. I am interested in talking to you about the ENP and the E-LSA training. I will private message you at a later date, I need to get an update from the college on where things stand with my feasibility study that I submitted.

 

[RFSchaller]

Dakoda,

Remember you will have to get around the issue of not-for-hire if you want to use an E-LSA for training. If you can establish a partnership for the students each can be a part owner and receive instruction in "their airplane".

Good luck.

Rich

 

[Flyingdreamz]

Dakoda,

Remember you will have to get around the issue of not-for-hire if you want to use an E-LSA for training. If you can establish a partnership for the students each can be a part owner and receive instruction in "their airplane".

Good luck.

Rich

After talking to a lawyer friend of mine there are two ways to make this work, one is to add all the students who are part of the project as a partner. The other is to argue that the PIC/the student is part of the owning entity and that they would be paying for the operating cost just like they would if it was one person owning the aircraft. The second option needs to be run by the Atlanta FSDO.

Thanks.