[Geico266]

Over the past month I have received several calls from -12 builders asking how I filled the pulled rivets on my -12 before painting. I thought I would make a thread for this subject. Actually, I thought I already did, but I can't find it.

I filled the pulled rivets 4 years ago before painting. None of them have "fallen out" like a few thought they would. I can assure you having worked with Superfil they are not going to fall out.

This is paint prep and has nothing to do with LSA.

Here we go....

1. You will need to order a small size Superfil from Aircraft Spruce ( or another distributor) Yes, they still make it. You can make your own using micro balloons and resin, but Superfil is much more consistent. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/superfil.php

2. Go to a farm store / animal medical supply house and buy a bag of 1" x 16 gage hypodermic needles and a matching number of 20ML syringes. They are pretty cheap.

3. Stop at the local bottle shop and grab a 12er pack of your favorite warm beverage, and send to the OP as a gift for this tip of the day. Buy warm so you won't be tempted to drink my beer.

4. Sand or grind the point off the needle and deburr it. You don't need to hurt yourself.

5. Start on the bottom of the wing or stabilator so you can refine your technique. Mix 2-3 table spoons of Superfil and put it in the syringe. popsickle sticks work great. Working time is about 30 mins, throw it out and repeat.

6. Start with a line of rivets and place the modified needle into the bottom of the hole and fill from the bottom up. Notice the 16 gage needle fits inside the rivet hole, smart huh?
The mixture continually comes out (like a caulking gun) so you need to judge filling time and when to move to the next rivet. Leave a little of the mixture "proud" or higher than the rivet head. Allow it to cure for 1-3 days. Don't try and smooth it down, that comes later. Move in one continuous motion stopping only to fill the hole for a second or two. Wifey or kids can help with this project!

7. After 1-2 days, take a 90 degree die grinder with air pressure set at 40 psi and a 2" OLD worn fine sanding disc. (Both available at Harbor Freight) What you are going to do is "shine" the top of the rivet. Do not remove metal, just shine the top. The excess Superfil will be gone in an instant. The top of the rivet becomes your guild. If only have gets shined you are not holding the die grinder straight. If you look at your pulled rivets closely there is a burr where the mandrel pulled out. This eliminated that burr also. Wear a dust mask, that's an order.

The extra time it took was about 40 hours, and after doing the math it added 1.3 oz to the plane.

If you want the look of solid rivets this is the way to go.

Have fun! Hope this helps.

 

[rgmwa]

Very timely, Larry. I've been thinking about this recently.

The extra time it took was about 40 hours, and after doing the math it added 1.3 oz to the plane.

Sounds a bit heavy! Did you deduct the weight saved by not painting the inside of the rivet holes?

I've got your beer in my fridge, but freight costs are a bit steep. Are you planning to come by here any time soon?

 

[DaleB]

Geico, I'm not even building a -12... but I'm close enough you can stop by and collect a beer or two, just for being dedicated enough to fill the holes of a bunch of pulled rivets.

 

[Gagarin737]

And fun it was! (not)
It took me about the same time (40 hours) to complete the complete plane. The fun part was the underside of the fuselage/tailcone.
I also used a 20ml syringe. Instead of Superfil I used epoxy with glass bubbles. In the beginning its flows out on its own and I started at the wing, after an hour its get thicker and I did a part of the fuselage sides/bottom.
Sanding was done with a 3M 2" superfine disc in an electrical drill. I also used a aluminum 1mm (thickness of the rivet) plate with a 1/4" hole in it to protect the rivet. You can't go wrong this way and it only shaves away the epoxy (and the bur).
Put on the music and try to keep the brains working only for primary functions, this job is boring/terrible.

(In the picture there are some air bubbles in the epoxy. It's on top and you will sand it away. The picture was made when I started, takes a while to get used to the "filling procedure")

 

[pierre smith]

Why? I saw a Rans with this done too.

Best,

 

[DonFromTX]

Why? I guess cause it looks cool, and precludes rusting of the steel mandrel as well as not having the holes fill up with wax or crud.
I have bought all the stuff to do it with the needles, but someone reported doing it by just daubing it on the holes with an ice cream stick, not sure which method I will use yet. I can see lots of cramping and pain with these old arthritic hands either way.

 

[Geico266]

Why? I guess cause it looks cool, and precludes rusting of the steel mandrel as well as not having the holes fill up with wax or crud.
I have bought all the stuff to do it with the needles, but someone reported doing it by just daubing it on the holes with an ice cream stick, not sure which method I will use yet. I can see lots of cramping and pain with these old arthritic hands either way.

Since the holes are air tight getting the stuff down in the hole is gonna be tough, IMHO. Just smearing it on the top of the rivet is inviting chipping. I don't know this for a fact, but I had 40 hours to think about it.

 

[Geico266]

Geico, I'm not even building a -12... but I'm close enough you can stop by and collect a beer or two, just for being dedicated enough to fill the holes of a bunch of pulled rivets.

Hey! Your first post!

WELCOME TO VAF!


New guys always buy!

 

[Geico266]

Very timely, Larry. I've been thinking about this recently.



Sounds a bit heavy! Did you deduct the weight saved by not painting the inside of the rivet holes?

I've got your beer in my fridge, but freight costs are a bit steep. Are you planning to come by here any time soon?

Yea, international freight might be a tad pricey. Just send money.

 

[Dave12]

I have seen Larry's airplane close up and it looks very good. I wish I had done it. I am trying to send some warm beer, but can't find a zip code for Huskerville?

 

[RPorter]

Very nice to know we have a "customer" that wants this done on EN-II

 

[gblwy]

The manual way

I used Superfil with no tools other than a dentist's metal spatula.

1. Polish rivets with a worn sanding wheel as previously described, removes the burr, if present.

2. Mix enough Superfil to cover a small coin. With the spatula, fill each head, allowing the material to become "proud" of the surface.

3. When all material has been used, and before it sets, use a finger to "wipe" the excess off. May leave a tiny depression, but not really noticeable once painted.

4. Drink your own beer, once complete. And, yes, this took me 40 hours too.

I obtained the Superfil from a Europa builder who had some spare. After I had used the 1.3 ounces, I passed the remains to a 601 builder who used some more.

Any more in the queue?


Cheers...Keith

 

[MartySantic]

I used Superfil with no tools other than a dentist's metal spatula.
1. Polish rivets with a worn xxxx as previously described, removes the burr, if present.
2. Mix enough Superfil to cover a small coin. With the spatula, fill each head, allowing the material to become "proud" of the surface.
3. When all material has been used, and before it sets, use a finger to "wipe" the excess off. May leave a tiny depression, but not really noticeable once painted.
4. Drink your own beer, once complete. And, yes, this took me 40 hours too.

I obtained the Superfil from a Europa builder who had some spare. After I had used the 1.3 ounces, I passed the remains to a 601 builder who used some more.

Any more in the queue?
Cheers...Keith
Cheers...Keith

Larry as vain as he is would be proud!

 

[Geico266]

I used Superfil with no tools other than a dentist's metal spatula.

1. Polish rivets with a worn xxxx as previously described, removes the burr, if present.

2. Mix enough Superfil to cover a small coin. With the spatula, fill each head, allowing the material to become "proud" of the surface.

3. When all material has been used, and before it sets, use a finger to "wipe" the excess off. May leave a tiny depression, but not really noticeable once painted.

4. Drink your own beer, once complete. And, yes, this took me 40 hours too.

I obtained the Superfil from a Europa builder who had some spare. After I had used the 1.3 ounces, I passed the remains to a 601 builder who used some more.

Any more in the queue?

Cheers...Keith



Cheers...Keith

Larry as vain as he is would be proud!

They drink their own beer in Scotland?

 

[rv6rick]

Something to consider if you want to share your project at the big show.....and I encourage you to do so . Others can learn from your craftsmanship and it WILL add some kind of value if you choose to sell one day.

I can assure you that it doesn't 'look cool' to the Judges at Oshkosh . Your rivets should be seen in there entirety; universal rivets, flush rivets, and pop rivets. "All of your work should be seen and not hidden".

I too have filled a few pops many years ago but quickly removed the paint as I didn't care for it. That's why they make many flavors of ice cream.

Have fun and do it the way that appeals to you as it's your airplane.

Why? I guess cause it looks cool, and precludes rusting of the steel mandrel as well as not having the holes fill up with wax or crud.
I have bought all the stuff to do it with the needles, but someone reported doing it by just daubing it on the holes with an ice cream stick, not sure which method I will use yet. I can see lots of cramping and pain with these old arthritic hands either way.

 

[Phantom30]

Over the past month I have received several calls from -12 builders asking how I filled the pulled rivets on my -12 before painting. I thought I would make a thread for this subject. Actually, I thought I already did, but I can't find it.

I filled the pulled rivets 4 years ago before painting. None of them have "fallen out" like a few thought they would. I can assure you having worked with Superfil they are not going to fall out.

This is paint prep and has nothing to do with LSA.

Here we go....

1. You will need to order a small size Superfil from Aircraft Spruce ( or another distributor) Yes, they still make it. You can make your own using micro balloons and resin, but Superfil is much more consistent. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/superfil.php

2. Go to a farm store / animal medical supply house and buy a bag of 1" x 16 gage hypodermic needles and a matching number of 20ML syringes. They are pretty cheap.

3. Stop at the local bottle shop and grab a 12er pack of your favorite warm beverage, and send to the OP as a gift for this tip of the day. Buy warm so you won't be tempted to drink my beer.

4. Sand or grind the point off the needle and deburr it. You don't need to hurt yourself.

5. Start on the bottom of the wing or stabilator so you can refine your technique. Mix 2-3 table spoons of Superfil and put it in the syringe. popsickle sticks work great. Working time is about 30 mins, throw it out and repeat.

6. Start with a line of rivets and place the modified needle into the bottom of the hole and fill from the bottom up. Notice the 16 gage needle fits inside the rivet hole, smart huh?
The mixture continually comes out (like a caulking gun) so you need to judge filling time and when to move to the next rivet. Leave a little of the mixture "proud" or higher than the rivet head. Allow it to cure for 1-3 days. Don't try and smooth it down, that comes later. Move in one continuous motion stopping only to fill the hole for a second or two. Wifey or kids can help with this project!

7. After 1-2 days, take a 90 degree die grinder with air pressure set at 40 psi and a 2" OLD worn fine sanding disc. (Both available at Harbor Freight) What you are going to do is "shine" the top of the rivet. Do not remove metal, just shine the top. The excess Superfil will be gone in an instant. The top of the rivet becomes your guild. If only have gets shined you are not holding the die grinder straight. If you look at your pulled rivets closely there is a burr where the mandrel pulled out. This eliminated that burr also. Wear a dust mask, that's an order.

The extra time it took was about 40 hours, and after doing the math it added 1.3 oz to the plane.

If you want the look of solid rivets this is the way to go.

Have fun! Hope this helps.

Thanks Larry.....You ever get out my way; there's always plenty of cool ones in my shop frig!

 

[Gagarin737]

Just a small update. The first parts are painted (stabilizer/wheelpants) and with the way I did it you'll end up with just small depressions. Was not really a fun job but I'm glad I did it. (The color is a Peugeot grey metallic, the color of the pictures is not even close)

 

[Dave12]

Looks great!