M

MarcoAviator

Member
OK ... so I went to Greg Piney's "laboratory" on Saturday (thanks Greg!) and practiced on building the Van's Box. That was the starting step I imposed on myself before making the final decision and actually purchase the empannage (well ... the next step is setting up a shop and that alone might take months!).

I filed, drilled, dimpled, deburred (the holes) and did other funky stuff I have never done before in my life and I don't think I had any problem whatsoever doing any of these things. They weren't hard to do ... and they weren't boring (granted it's only the box, not 20 feet worth of wing ... the story might be different on more than a couple of inches of metal box and by hole 9,999 I might get sick of it).

But still ... I sort of fell into a trance while doing all these "repetitive" tasks. I wasn't bored and I felt I could do them for hours at an end without getting tired. I can totally see myself spending a full 8 hours in the shop and getting out only when my wife knocks me over the head with a baseball bat and drags me unconcious to the dinner table to be force-fed with a funnel ...

I am actually having a very positive outlook on the whole experience. I am very glad I did this as a trial and I am optimistic that I can actually do this.

The only problem came down to be ... riveting.

Somehow I am having some trouble keeping that gun steady. I don't rivet enough: the rivets are sorta "half" planted ... not fully "squished" (is there a technical term I am looking for here?).

The guns bucks and rolls in my hands and I kinda strayed all over the place with it a couple of times. The metal was not damaged (I expected the gun to rip the metal apart if it went off the rivet but it didn't).

On the other hand some rivets came out ok some others didn't come out ok at all.

Maybe I am missing something but I was having a real hard time keeping the gun still while in operation. And that was just operating the gun.

I didn't actually operate the bucking bar which (according to Greg) requires more concentration than the operating the gun.

That's bad news for me because I feel that I screwed up 50% of the rivets and of the other 50% only 2 or 3 were actually acceptable (we must have done about 18 or so of them in total).

I am worried about this because if I have 10,000+ rivets to put in the wings, and I have such a bad percentage ... this might prove impractical for me.

Is it normal to screw up rivets?

Does it get better with practice (I bet it does but then I might have to practice some more ... maybe I need to buy another box and try to build that on my own)?

Is there a percentage of screwed up rivets that is unavoidable even with the best of riveters?

How much is it acceptable to screw them up?

How much have you guys screwed them up? Or is it that after 20-30 rivets you don't screw up anymore and you just get the hang of it?

These are all questions that are running in my mind right now.

The other thing is that riveting is hard enough if you have 2 guys working on it on their own time but ... if you don't have that, if you are alone, then I get the impression this is a lot harder and I was already having a lot of trouble as it is.

I enjoyed the process. I am confident that if I start, I will be able to finish ... I just need to win over this problem I have with riveting.
 
MarcoAviator said:
Somehow I am having some trouble keeping that gun steady. I don't rivet enough: the rivets are sorta "half" planted ... not fully "squished" (is there a technical term I am looking for here?).

The guns bucks and rolls in my hands and I kinda strayed all over the place with it a couple of times. The metal was not damaged (I expected the gun to rip the metal apart if it went off the rivet but it didn't).
Click to expand...
Do two things and you'll be fine:

(1) The tendency is to push back with the bucking bar. Don't do this. Keep it on the work, but don't push back hard with it. Let it do the work. Hold the bucking bar in your palm (or at least halfway down your fingers) and hold your fingers on the piece itself. If the manufactured head is protruding above the work, you basically pushed it out with your bucking bar. Bad thing.

(2) ... if things are bouncing around, you probably have the pressure on the gun up too high. The tendency for newbies -- and me too until I was working on the fuselage -- is to want to BLAST your way to the perfect rivet. Turn the gun down. And you might even try shorter bursts....blrp...blrp...blrp .... instead of one long blrrrrrrrrrrppppppppppppp."

(3) If you do nothing else...when you release the trigger on your rivet gun...cont..."one throusand one...one throusand two" and THEN take your gun off the work.


You'll get it.
 
What type of rivet gun are you using?

Here's a couple of hints:

I'm using an ATS 3x gun and love it. I started with a 2x and it just didn't cut it on the 1/8 inch rivets on the wing spar webs.

* Make sure you're using a high quality swivel regulator at the rivet gun.
* I put my line pressure at 70psi.

If your gun is jumping around too much, it sounds like you're using too much pressure or the pressure isn't smooth (hence the need for high pressure and the swivel regulator).

I wasn't happy with the swivel regulator I bought from Cleaveland because it completely opened and closed in about a half turn. The one I bought at ATS was much better, IMHO and allows you to get a much more precise pressure in the gun. Always try your pressure first against your workbench. You should be able to control the gun one-handed before you start banging on metal.

Swivel Regulator

Hope that helps,
 
Thank you.

I understood half of the things you guys said ... which is GOOD because it means that I am missing something. Didn't know you could regulate pressure on the gun ... don't know what a swivel regulator is and I assumed you needed to keep the guns steady with both hands ...

The thought that you can keep the gun in one hand and the bucking bar with the other and still successfully squish one of those dreadful little buggers properly in place seems interesting. I am sure it's possible because I have heard of people being able to rivet solo ...

Obviously I need to look into all these things you guys mentioned.

Definetly I need to be able to do this precisely before I start banging at precious wing or stabilizer skin ...

Thank you!

PS: No clue whatsoever what type of gun I was using ...
 
Rivetting gets better with time. When I first started, I must have gone through 30 -4 rivets on a scrap piece until I got my first one to set right. Then I did a lot of practice with Ellen.

Fast forward a year, Ellen can shoot flush rivets and buck the -4's like a pro (it's easier for her to buck than to shoot the -4's), and driving rivets is just not a big deal for me anymore.

There are lots of tips out there. My favorite is a little piece of masking tape on the universal rivet set...really seems to help keep everything centered, especially when you're holding the gun at an awkward angle with the offset sets.

By the time you're done with your empennage, you'll be left wondering what all the fuss was about.
 
Man you need focus and practice

There are some rivets in locations that are extremely difficult to set. You will require special bucking bars to complete the job just to to get the bucking bar on them. Your posts in the forum in this thread reflect a total novice appreciation of the technology. No one is going to post messages here and make the need for you to aquire the skill go away - there is some art involved in riveting and you need your own personal talent. I disagree with the previous post that implied it is OK to hold the bucking bar lightly against the tail of the rivet but the rivet set in the gun has to hold the rivet hard in completely installed position and the bucking bar has to be firmly in position against the tail of the rivet - no force - no deformation and creation of the shop head. Rivets will work harden with repeated hits and the rule of thumb is three attemps to get the final set before replacement. A regulator is a little device that screws into the air inlet port of the rivet gun that allows you to adjust the pressure in the gun with usually with a few test hits on your work bench or a test rivet strip. Your intuitive view that you may need more practice is correct you also need to develop the critical attitude that this is a deadly serious process and you do need to develop some expertise.

Bob Axsom
 
My 2cents

I am done with my empennage and waiting for my wing kit, so these are my riveting lessons learned...

I definitely agree that practice makes "better" if not quite perfect. For instance, I have bucked far more 426 3-3.5 rivets than most others. I am quite proficient at these rivets. I have found that my 3x gun needs to be at quite a low pressure (i keep forgetting to measure the PSI at the gun). However, it is set so that at full trigger, bam bam bam bam, and the rivet is set.

For 1/8 rivets, though, the same pressure setting above does hardly anything to the rivet. I have to up the pressure a specific amount to start having effect on the rivet. I have not practiced 1/8 rivets enough yet to have developed a steady tempo to set a rivet in one go.

However, the above only holds true if the gun and bucking bar can be held horizontally to each other - the most natural position.

I just riveted the aft deck piece on the tailcone, where I had to drive the rivet straight down. In this, less natural position, the same techniques used above proved inadequate and left me with a shallow divet - too much pressure on the gun. My mistake was not adjusting the pressure or counteracting the pressure by applying enough opposite pressure on the bucking bar, to counteract the 1G down force of gravity itself. Another Homer DUHHH moment!

The lesson of my experience is to practice until you've discovered your own personal best settings. However, adjust those golden settings for varying positions you will have to use to shoot a rivet.

Jae
 
Just keep practicing, marco. You'll get the hang of it soonner or later. There will always be problem rivets and rivets that are difficult to squeeze or buck because of where they are at, but riveting really isn't rocket science. I'd second Bob Collin's recommendation not to try to push too hard with the bucking bar... just enough pressure to let the weight of the bucking bar do the work.

Also, since you're probably (and naturally) stressed about it now, rest assured... even poorly set rivets (within reason) are very strong. I think if you look in section 5 of your newer assembly manual, you see Van's has included the report that says something like even poorly set rivets (again, within reason) are something like 95% as strong as a perfectly set one.
Note that I'm not encouraging sloppiness: Always strive to set them as best you can, but recognize that a few dingers are going to end up in your plane. That's why Van's has so many more rivets than are necessary.

Good luck. You'll be enjoying building soon enough. It's not all frustration!
 
I don't think we found out what rivets you were setting. Jamie said he sets the gun at 70 psi. I assume he's talking about setting "4"s because that'll blow the brains out of the 3's.

I've seen various pressures posted. You'll want to try your own. And it also changes depending on the length of the rivet. But for , let's say, a 3-3.5 flush head rivet, I usually run the gun at about 38 psi. For a 4-5 universal head (round), about 62 does it for me.

Others have different psi that work for them.

If you haven't read Dan Checkoway's treatise on this, then you must. Next to Macbeth, it's the greatest piece ever written.

One other thing that's really important. Most of us have had to learn how to do this. There aren't a lot of folks who were professional riveters when they started this project and while there are plenty of folks out there who seem like life-long experts, most of us were in that position once too.

Remember the goal of experimental aviation: recreation AND education. This is the education part.

It gets better.

Just remember to pass along everything you learn to the next guy.
 
Bob Collins said:
I don't think we found out what rivets you were setting. Jamie said he sets the gun at 70 psi. I assume he's talking about setting "4"s because that'll blow the brains out of the 3's.
Click to expand...

No...it most certainly will not.

I'm talking about the regulator just outside my compressor...not the one on the gun. You can set your line regulator to whatever you want to. The swivel regulator is what decides how much pressure makes it to the gun. The pressure on the line should be set pretty high so that whenever the gun fires it's not having to suck a bunch of air a long way through the hose (which is slow and causes the gun to not operate smoothly). I don't have a pressure gauge between my swivel regulator and gun so I have no idea how much pressure actually makes it to the gun...but yes...it's obviously less than 70 because it's not wide-open.
 
Jamie said:
No...it most certainly will not.

I'm talking about the regulator just outside my compressor...not the one on the gun. You can set your line regulator to whatever you want to. The swivel regulator is what decides how much pressure makes it to the gun. The pressure on the line should be set pretty high so that whenever the gun fires it's not having to suck a bunch of air a long way through the hose (which is slow and causes the gun to not operate smoothly). I don't have a pressure gauge between my swivel regulator and gun so I have no idea how much pressure actually makes it to the gun...but yes...it's obviously less than 70 because it's not wide-open.
Click to expand...

One easy solution to this problem is to run your main line to a pressure regulator near your work and then connect to that with a short coil hose. That way you can dial in an exact pressure that's pretty close to what the gun is getting. I don't even use a swivel regulator at the gun.
 
Jamie said:
No...it most certainly will not.
I'm talking about the regulator just outside my compressor...not the one on the gun.
Click to expand...
Ah, yes, that would 'splain it. I use a different set up. I have the regulator at the compressor up around 100 psi (via a filter), and feed another regulator downstream (that includes water filter and oiler), and I exit that regulator at 38 psi and feed the gun which has a swivel regulator on it.

I thought you were shooting 70 psi at the gun.
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
Also, since you're probably (and naturally) stressed about it now ...
Click to expand...

No ... not stressed. Not even frustrated. Just taking notes.

I have never riveted anything in my life before last weekend (and I think I set a grand total of 18 rivets :rolleyes: ) ... so I was just asking questions.

I got plenty more rivets to go on the box and if I need more practice I would just buy another one and re-do it from start. And keep doing it until I am consistent and comfortable with it.

No worries. :)
 
Bob Axsom said:
No one is going to post messages here and make the need for you to aquire the skill go away
Click to expand...

Such a concept never even entered my mind.

I started a forum (The Pilot Lounge) for novice pilots to exchange stories about their experiences because it's a FUN thing to do. Not to replace real practice or replace flight instructions. You can read books all you want but at the end of the day, when the rubber needs to meet the runway, if you are not out there flying you don't gain any experience and all that knowledge just stays where you found it: in the books.

I am guessing here that learning how to rivet is like learning how to land: it's an art and you gotta get the hang of it and the only way to do it is to go smash some rubber on your own, make your own mistakes and aim for nothing less than touching down on the centerline and the numbers, all the time.

I do plan to share my NOVICE experiences here though.

Never worked with metal of any kind. Never riveted. Never even done woodwork for that matter.

Hence ... consider me the "underdog" of the forum, if you will. :D

Who knows? Maybe the totally dumb questions I am going to ask here are going to be the kind of questions that go in the "All you ever wanted to know about plane building and never dared to ask" book and that's going to help others. :D
 
MarcoAviator said:
Such a concept never even entered my mind.
Who knows? Maybe the totally dumb questions I am going to ask here are going to be the kind of questions that go in the "All you ever wanted to know about plane building and never dared to ask" book and that's going to help others. :D
Click to expand...
The worst thing -- the absolute WORST thing -- that anybody on these forums (all of 'em ) can do, is make it less likely that people will ask questions for fear of being made to feel stupid.

All knowledge starts with a question.

Keep it up.
 
Simple things I do: Set the pressure between 25 to 30 psi for #3's, 60-70psi for #4's
and for the 426's I use a rivet gun head that has a rubber seal around the outside. I think some call it a training gun head but I found it really helps when you have to rivet by yourself. I riveted the leading edge and the fuel tanks for my RV-10 by myself. You have to stretch and hold the gun steady but it can be done with the rubber seal. I think I got mine with a rivet gun set from USTools. I think the whole set was about $200 and it is worth every penny.
Good Luck!
 
Well maybe that's not the absolute worst thing

Bob Collins said:
The worst thing -- the absolute WORST thing -- that anybody on these forums (all of 'em ) can do, is make it less likely that people will ask questions for fear of being made to feel stupid.

All knowledge starts with a question.

Keep it up.
Click to expand...

You have a point and I've been spending way too much time in here anyway - so long Bob, tell'em what you think they should hear.

Bob Axsom
 
Regulate the tool not the shop pressure

It seems like a lot of guys are setting up their guns by line pressure. Personally I think this is a very bad shop practice. I use one of the CP style pressure regulators on the rivet gun. It's the regulator that has the micro stops on it. I setup all my tools to run one shop pressure, 90 psi. That way you adjust the tool for size of the material you are working with. This eleminates the chance of ever having the air pressure too high. I hear stories of people drilling a hole at 90 psi then picking up their unregulated river gun and beating the tar out of their airplane. Usually they get through a few rivets before they figure out what's happening.

With a little practice the CP style regulator works great. I leave it at the setting for a -3 rivet in a skin. If I'm shooting a -4 I may open it up 2 or 3 clicks, when I'm done I put it pack to the original setting. This makes getting your rivet gun ready for the day a no brainer.
 
riveting issue

Riveting is a motor skill. Like any motor skill it takes practice. The best practice I found was to find scrap and just try every possible combination you can think of. Learning points are important, using the proper rivet set, staying perpindicular to your work. All the skills that you acquire when you practice. I have even seen experienced sheet metal mechs with dings in their empennage. So nobody is perfect. You are taking the proper attitude in questioning your own skills to improve yourself. Sharing your process is invaluable to those who do not want to speak up for fear they are alone. Do not worry, we are all in this together.
 
Quote: PS: No clue whatsoever what type of gun I was using ...

Was it a rivet gun? An air hammer looks like a rivet gun, but is a whole 'nuther beast... Mel will tell you an air hammer can be used, with caveats. Having a very good teasing trigger is a must, and good air pressure control sure helps.
You will almost surely have better luck with a swivel flush rivet set than a solid one.

Maybe this should be a different thread, but a question about my own situation: I bought my 3x gun from Boeing surplus. It works fine most of the time, but sometimes it just passes air, and won't hardly kick. Frustrating for several minutes until its done with its break and gets back to work. Anyone else run into that? Anything I can do short of getting it overhauled?
 
I also tried some riveting last weekend. As you said MarcoAviator, everything else (dimpling, deburring, drilling etc.) has been easy so far but also for me the riveting was first real problem.

Actually I started with 426s where I was able to find good requlation and able to make pretty good riveting in 2 secs (counting time of course). So riveting is easy until I took few 470s and really did some nasty smileys and such...

Before I'll try again, I'll read Kitplanes articles from Dan and again this whole thread (which has perfect timing to answer my problems too). Now I had some small scrap pieces but I think anything you will rivet should be somehow clamped that they don't move. Otherwise it is pretty hard to keep the bucking bar and gun in correct position... oh well, let's see what happens next weekend.

After this first trial, I might consider using squeezer for anything that can be done with it when having 470s... :rolleyes:
 
Two guns!

I bought the Avery tool kit with the 3X gun. I found at first that I really didn't get on with it, especially for the -4 rivets. I wasn't sure why, but it just wasn't working out. So I bought a 2X gun (faster but softer, apparently) and decide I'd keep whichever one suited me best. Both guns have regulators on them. The odd thing is, that after trying both I actually found I could work with either one. I think it was just experience beginning to kick in; this was about 3/4 of the way through my empennage. Now I find that the 2X gun is set just right for the -3 rivets, while the 3X gun is set just right for the -4 rivets and I just choose the right gun for the job. So do I advocate everyone buying two guns? No, of course not! But my advice is to find another builder that has the 'other' size gun and see if you can try it out. You might just find a preference for one over the other.

Other tips:-
1. Those snap-soc plastic rivet set sleeve jobbies from Avery really help me avoid smileys on the 470 rivets.
2. The rubber sleeve around the flush set helps keep things safe, but...
3.... better yet, a couple of layers of masking tape over the end of the flush set really helped stop the gun from skidding around all over the place!
4. Make sure the work is well held and doesn't move; its hard enough trying to rivet in the first place, without the work moving around. Even when it seems simple, or is 'just a quick job', clamp that sucker down; you may regret it otherwise.
5. If possible get a helper; much easier to concentrate on just one side, and it gives you your free hand to hold the end of the rivet gun and keep it in place.
6. I have found that when drilling out rivets (and you will), it is easier to go in first with a smaller drill and then with the right size, before breaking the rivet head off. Sometimes I go through the whole rivet with the smaller drill and its a lot easier to punch out that way. For example, a #40 drill is 2.5mm. I'll go in with a 2mm drill first, that way I can see how deep I need to go with the #40 to break the head off the rivet. If necessary, I'll go right through with the 2mm, since if it is near the centre of the rivet there is little chance of enlarging the hole and it is much easier to then punch the rivet out since a large amount of the stress/force holding the rivet in the hole has been removed.
7. Sometimes it is easier to drill from the shop end, rather than the manufactured end; don't get caught believing you have to do it one way; the goal is to get the rivet out without damaging or enlarging the hole; whichever way works!
8. When punching out a drilled rivet in a flange, the right size socket held against the back will keep the flange in place and allow the rivet to pop out when you punch it.
 
Bob Axsom said:
You have a point and I've been spending way too much time in here anyway - so long Bob, tell'em what you think they should hear.

Bob Axsom
Click to expand...
No need for anyone to get upset or leave. It's not a matter of telling people want they want to hear. It's a matter of everyone remembering their roots, how it felt to feel clueless, and taking things in small steps. I often read admonishments (thugh not in this particular thread) to go read this book or go take that class. That's all good advice. In fact, it's great advice. But we are also a resource...we are also that book and that class and we have information to pass along that can be valuable as part of the educational process.

The purpose of these forums, it seems to me, includes the sharing of knowledge, and helping each other along in the process of building an airplane. Yes, sometimes that involves a kick in the pants, sometimes reminding people how clueless they are isn't an appropriate first step. I guess we all have to use our judgment as to what is best.

But for me --and I realize others may have different thoughts and that's fine for them -- when I ask a question, I've found RVers much more willing to say, "here, let me show you," far, far more often than "what are you asking me for?"

And that, more than anything else, is what makes the RV community a terrific place.

One thing I've learned in building an RV is the value of patience. If we can extend that to to aluminum, there's no reason we can't extend that to people, imho.

This is a guy who's practicing and asking to learn. There are many options for him to do that. We are one of those options and, yeah, I think I do have a responsibility to help. Step by step. For however it long it takes. The better we are at explaining it, the better he'll be at riveting. The better he is at riveting, the safer his plane is. The safer his plane is, the safer we all are.

But there's another question that is the subtext for everything about these forums that I think speaks highly of the RV community. It's the one that goes "how can I help?"
 
N674P said:
Quote: PS: No clue whatsoever what type of gun I was using ...
Anyone else run into that? Anything I can do short of getting it overhauled?
Click to expand...
That might be someting as smple as replacing the o-rings. That's a 29-cent fix.
 
It sounds like you were doing flush rivets. First off, when playing with the gun for the first time, i'd try to set some #4 AN-470's. The universal head rivets are much easier to keep the gun on for a novice. Yes you'll end up with some 'smiling' rivet and stuff, but you can learn how the gun reacts to certain things with the universal heads. The flush heads are a different story. Most people use a mushroom head to hit those rivets, like this:

9c_1.JPG


I prefer to use a normal universal set that the cupped part has been machined off of. I feel it gives me more control, and the gun moves around less. It does however, increase the chances of damaging if you slide off the head of the rivet. FWIW I did my whole HS via the gun, I personally prefer it to squeezing. We'll see if that changes when I get a Pnematic Squeezer.
 
Don't throw away your box!

Before you abandon the poor little box you started on, don't! Use it as a tool all the way through to the end.

When you get your empennage kit, you will make mistakes. So, an excellent use for the box could be, to learn how to fix mistakes. (And learn how to set rivets) You need to know how to fix mistakes just as much as you need to know how to set rivets, because you will make mistakes.

So you could now go back to the box and practice drilling out all the poorly set rivets. Read up on how to do this. The guy from NZ had some excellent tips in a preceding post. After you drill them out, reset new rivets. If the hole is now enlarged, practice "growing" rivets to fit the hole size. There are all kinds of tricks to learn and I'm not any kind of an expert but I can shoot an OK rivet, and I do make mistakes, and I can usually fix my mistakes. Since my "Pre-cover Inspection" has been approved, my work must be OK. Like you, I had never even smelled a rivet before starting this project.

When I really get depressed about my work, I simply go out and look at a Cessna, and then I feel all warm and fuzzy again.

One of the cool things about these RV's is that you will never, ever, look at airplanes in the same way again. I find myself looking at Gen Av aircraft now with a critical eye and run my hand over their skins. I find myself looking at Ultralights now in horror in regard to the shoddy workmanship from the factory and the total disregard for aircraft standards practices.

When you build, it changes you. Carry on regardless.

Pete
 
Mustang said:
One of the cool things about these RV's is that you will never, ever, look at airplanes in the same way again.
Pete
Click to expand...
Isn't that the truth. How many of you standing in the jetway at the airport while in the line just outside the big 757 (or something) doesn't move, start inspecting the rivets?
 
Mustang said:
Before you abandon the poor little box you started on, don't! Use it as a tool all the way through to the end.

When you get your empennage kit, you will make mistakes. So, an excellent use for the box could be, to learn how to fix mistakes. (And learn how to set rivets) You need to know how to fix mistakes just as much as you need to know how to set rivets, because you will make mistakes.

So you could now go back to the box and practice drilling out all the poorly set rivets. Read up on how to do this. The guy from NZ had some excellent tips in a preceding post. After you drill them out, reset new rivets. If the hole is now enlarged, practice "growing" rivets to fit the hole size. There are all kinds of tricks to learn and I'm not any kind of an expert but I can shoot an OK rivet, and I do make mistakes, and I can usually fix my mistakes. Since my "Pre-cover Inspection" has been approved, my work must be OK. Like you, I had never even smelled a rivet before starting this project.

When I really get depressed about my work, I simply go out and look at a Cessna, and then I feel all warm and fuzzy again.

One of the cool things about these RV's is that you will never, ever, look at airplanes in the same way again. I find myself looking at Gen Av aircraft now with a critical eye and run my hand over their skins. I find myself looking at Ultralights now in horror in regard to the shoddy workmanship from the factory and the total disregard for aircraft standards practices.

When you build, it changes you. Carry on regardless.

Pete
Click to expand...

I don't plan to throw it away. I plan to keep it and show it proudly! Mangled rivets and all!! :D
 
Bob Collins said:
Isn't that the truth. How many of you standing in the jetway at the airport while in the line just outside the big 757 (or something) doesn't move, start inspecting the rivets?
Click to expand...

Heck, I've even gotten caught inspecting the rivets on the Shuttle External Tank at the Michoud Assembly plant in New Orleans! Beautiful work - all nice and even - and the whole thing gets thrown away after nine minutes of flight.... :eek:

Paul
 
My solution to my riveting problem was to always have a partner handy to do the bucking. I know it's less than ideal but it really wasn't that bad on my QB. There's not a ton of riveting to do once you're past the empennage (wing skins, two skins on fuselage, canopy skin).

I had a hard time keeping the bucking bar oriented correctly. If I managed that then I'd get the gun off alignment. Probably had the gun set too high at times.



one last option is to build a Sonex or Zenith aircraft (gasp!) ... all pull rivets

 
Last edited:
Scott Will said:
one last option is to build a Sonex or Zenith aircraft (gasp!) ... all pull rivets
Click to expand...

hummm ... wait ... lemme think about that ...

NO THANKS!

:D

Choosing to build an RV was not something I came up with in 3 weeks. I have been researching and studying and drooling and getting headaches over all kits out there for 3 years!! In the end I always came back to the RV 8.

That's the one I want I don't care how or when.
 
Well, at least your not starting another 'tandom or side-by-side' thread then! Honestly, if you want to, just go ahead and build another toolbox, or go buy some sheetmetal and design your own project. Or another option is to go take a couple of Airframe classes at your local community college (if they offer A&P classes). You can learn a lot about riveting, composites and systems from those classes, maybe overkill, but if you've got a little time to waste, they can be extremely valuable.
 
A vote of thanks....

To all my fellow 'confederates' as my better half calls you guys.

Yesterday was a struggle attempting to set my first AN470 rivets, on the practice kit using the rivet gun. The squeezed ones were very straightforward by comparison. I thoroughly researched overnight and was inspired by posts here from Bob, Dan 'the man' and Jeff....

Your explanation of the principle, plus the EAA video's has made a remarkable difference for one so far from the US.

A word for the novice... it was only when I saw Dan's picture of the rivet gauge did I understand that there are two ends to it. There was me thinking that the hole was simple for the 'tie' keeping the four gauges together!

A question if I may... Until my skill improves, would it be preferable to slightly under drive a rivet, or over drive one? We are talking fractions here, I know....

B'rgds.....

Richard
 
Hi Richard.....

......underdriven rivets can obviously be driven a little more, whereas overdriven rivets have to be drilled out......another skill yet to be learned.

Regards,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.