A

AndyWW

Well Known Member
I'm ready to permanently attach the leading edge assembly to the main spar on my RV-7 build, but I want to wait until I have some help before tackling the notorious leading edge rib-to-spar rivets. Is there any reason why I shouldn't squeeze the skin to spar rivets first? The instructions say to rivet the ribs to the spar first, but I can't think of a good reason why the order would matter.

Any tips or advice very welcome at this point - the leading edge came out quite nicely with my wife's help and she'll kill me if I mess it up while attaching it to the wing!
 
I don't think it matters. Go ahead and get the aft edge to spar ones squeezed, then get ready to stretch your arms to buck the ribs to the spar. I had to enlist my daughter to handle the rivet gun on the middle ribs. I'm pretty sure Van's is OK with you putting blind pull rivets on the ribs, but I was able to get them all filled with regular solid rivets.
 
LP-4

bruceh said:
I don't think it matters. Go ahead and get the aft edge to spar ones squeezed, then get ready to stretch your arms to buck the ribs to the spar. I had to enlist my daughter to handle the rivet gun on the middle ribs. I'm pretty sure Van's is OK with you putting blind pull rivets on the ribs, but I was able to get them all filled with regular solid rivets.
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I asked and used LP-4s.
My reasoning was my skills setting #4 solid in confined areas were not good enough and drilling rivets in there wold not be much easier.
 
Thank you both very much. I think I will go ahead and rivet the skin to spar first, while I mull over what to do on the rib-to-spar rivets. If I got help from my son and used a tungsten bucking bar, does anyone have any tips to help get solid rivets successfully set? Or would I be nuts to try, given that my experience is limited to what I have gained so far in building the empennage and starting the wings?
 
Practice

AndyWW said:
Thank you both very much. I think I will go ahead and rivet the skin to spar first, while I mull over what to do on the rib-to-spar rivets. If I got help from my son and used a tungsten bucking bar, does anyone have any tips to help get solid rivets successfully set? Or would I be nuts to try, given that my experience is limited to what I have gained so far in building the empennage and starting the wings?
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I riveted the skin to spar first.
Easy way to find out.
Grab some similar scrap and practice.
Look at how the gun will be oriented and try to duplicate.
 
I'm with Larry on this one. LP-4's for the win for the rib-to-spar rivets.
I figured the chances of setting those solid rivets without dinging the spar web at least once or smearing a head were slim.
 
Rivet gun pressure

Thanks again for the tips. I've riveted the skin-to-spar rivets now but I'm still wondering about the rib-to-spar rivets. If I did decide to give the gun and solid rivets a try, what pressure would you recommend (using a ground-down 5.5" double offset rivet set and tungsten bucking bar)?
 
Pressure

AndyWW said:
Thanks again for the tips. I've riveted the skin-to-spar rivets now but I'm still wondering about the rib-to-spar rivets. If I did decide to give the gun and solid rivets a try, what pressure would you recommend (using a ground-down 5.5" double offset rivet set and tungsten bucking bar)?
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I suggest some scrap to test.
Guns vary. Pressure on one may not produce the same results as another.
On my Sioux using an offset, I would use 30 psi to start and probably end up around 40 psi.
I always practice on scrap with the offset.
YMMV
 
I've never had any luck controlling any sort of offset set. When I did the spar web rivets, I ended up using the longest straight set I could find in my collection. With the really long set, it gets the angle close enough to be manageable. If I ever build another, I'll probably just use the pop rivets, if Van's has ok'd it.

Charlie
 
when i practice with offset stuff i turn the retaining spring onto the gun till the rivet set doesnt rotate, that way i dont worry about it spinning around and jumping off target. 37 psi 2x #3 rivets. 41 psi 4x. the 4 literally hit 5 to 7 times and is done. the 2x takes more hits and time but the pressure keep the gun from acting like ridem cowboy
 
Hey Larry. I like the idea of using the LP-4's, at least for the rivets further in that are difficult to reach. Do you remember if you used the -3 or -4 length?
Regards,
Tom.
 
LP4

tgmillso said:
Hey Larry. I like the idea of using the LP-4's, at least for the rivets further in that are difficult to reach. Do you remember if you used the -3 or -4 length?
Regards,
Tom.
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According to my notes, both. There's a doubler plate on some.
 
When I wrote Vans about this they responded it was ok to use the LP4-3s and 4s "if the right lengths are used" so like Wirejock said, -4s in the thicker spots where needed - it will be obvious as you rivet where you need to put the longer ones.
 
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I see for the rivets called out in the plans they are -5 and -7 length respectively, depending on whether they go through the doubler or not. The AN470 lengths are given in 1/16" increments, which is the same as the LP4, yet you can use an LP4-3 or -4 as replacement. From this I can only assume that the LP4 rivet length implies that less material is used to create the shop head, or that the length specifies the thickest acceptably material that the specified rivet can be used in? Can anyone shed any light on this, because I've been unable to find anything relevant in AC43.13 or definitive on the forum regarding this?
 
Answered my own rudimentary question.

Ok team. I found a bunch of LP4-3's with my fuselage kit and compared them against the AN470AD4-5 and -7 that are normally used in this situation (see picture below). So what I can deduce from this is that the -3 in the LP4-3 refers to the maximum acceptable material thickness, whereas for the AN470 the length is for the total rivet shaft length. Anyway, time to put some LP4-4's on order so I can use them in place of the AN470AD4-7's.
Tom.

2nhf85i.jpg
 
I used MSP-43 and -44s here. I don't remember where, but recall finding a published grip length chart for these somewhere, and just used what was appropriate for each stack up.
 
tgmillso said:
So what I can deduce from this is that the -3 in the LP4-3 refers to the maximum acceptable material thickness, whereas for the AN470 the length is for the total rivet shaft length.
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2nhf85i.jpg


Correct.

The length value is grip length on the LP rivets but overall length on the AN rivets.

The notch marks (visible in the photo) on the rivet are also an indicator of the grip lengths (maximum and minimum). If you insert a rivet in the hole and the minimum mark is not visible and the maximum still is, you are good to go.
 
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