grjtucson

grjtucson

Well Known Member
I'm building an RV-7 and want to solo from either seat, but mostly from the right. Hear are my thoughts/decisions so far:

- dual brakes
- center mount throttle/mixture/prop/flap switch/elev trim switch
- PTT on each stick but nothing else
- center mounted manual aileron trim

For the panel, I'm thinking of dual GRT's, one centered on each seat, with airspeed, altimeter, a Lift Reserve Indicator, and a Tru-Trak ADI Pilot II as backups centered over the radio stack.

I've searched the forums and the web and haven't come up with much. Does anyone have any thoughts, things I should look out for or be concerned with, etc.?

Finally, does anyone know if I can get my right and left sticks swapped so the left is the removable one and the right is fixed, or even better, so they are both removable?

Thanks in advance,

George
 
Sticks

If I recall--I am not near my plans or sticks at this moment, that the left stick is the fatter one. The right stick is smaller diameter. You could probably purchase another right stick and cut the left one off and slide the new stick into the weldment. If I am correct the part of the weldment at the bottom of the stick is the same diameter tubing on each side.

Several guys have done the right seat thing using steam gauges. I guess the biggest issue is resale value doing that. By leaving all the other controls in the center you should be OK, I would think.

From "the list" today:

F-669-PC RIGHT CONTROL STICK $12.33
WD-611-PC RHT.STICK CNTRL.BASE $59.78
WD-612-PC LEFT CONTROL STICK $62.68
 
If you're going to do a tip-up canopy, per the plans the primary latch mechanism is on the left side. Not really a big deal, just something to be aware of.
 
I fly my 6A from the right seat - with traditional left seat instruments. Right seat with right hand on stick just seems more comfortable. I only fly VFR and don't spend much time inside looking at gauges. If you're not sure, put a pilot in the left seat and try flying from the right seat. My guess is you won't have much difficulty.
If I were flying IFR I think I'd probably want the instruments in front of me.
 
Throttle

Is there a way to make a left handed throttle quadrant in the left seat and also have a throttle quadrant in the middle? Then you can fly right handed from the left seat. I was curious about this because I like Dan Checkoway's left handed throttle quadrant but I want my pax to be able to control the throttle if need be...

-Blake
 
Yes (pic)

WannaBRV said:
Is there a way to make a left handed throttle quadrant in the left seat and also have a throttle quadrant in the middle? Then you can fly right handed from the left seat. I was curious about this because I like Dan Checkoway's left handed throttle quadrant but I want my pax to be able to control the throttle if need be...
-Blake
Click to expand...
Hi Blake,

This has been done before. Go to http://www.vansairforce.net/buildermodifications/dualthrottlesetup.htm

Here's a pic from that page:
IMG_0042.jpg


Best,
Doug
 
I was looking into doing this as well. It seems much easier if you have a throttle quadrant in the middle vs. the old push/pull. It seemed very doable but didn't seem worth the weight. I may change my mind one day. What I had in mind was looping the cables from the left side quadrant around behind and just under the panel, and then just attaching them right to the center quadrant. Depending on how tight the bend are, you may get into a situtation where you just have to use pushrods and bellcranks for all or part of the linkage.

If you're push/pull style in the center, then you have to worry about the locks on the vernier for the prop and mixture. Also, I'm not sure how you'd attach the left side without having to design some contraption.

It would be great if someone came up with a simple way of doing this.
 
Throttle By Wire - use a servo which pushes/pulls on the cables. You could put dual inputs anywhere you like, and even have a switch to lock out one side or the other. Of course, this leaves you open to electrical or servo failure, not sure how much I like that....
 
Dual quadrants

Hi,

Another option..... I wanted dual controls for both seats, (I like left hand for throttle and the right for stick ;) )

The current configuration we have is two quadrants mounted on the vertical chanels (mirror image on the P2 side)

Web_Img_4981.jpg
Web_Img_7060.jpg


The push-pull cables then go all the way through the firewall from both sides and get connected to the actuators.

Web_Img_5261.jpg
Web_Img_8148.jpg


Works fine on the ground.....

Carl
 
Removeable sticks

George.... making both sticks removable is easy... you just need the correct size inserts and make a short internal sleeve to connect them.

The sizes are slightly different, I think I got a slightly larger tube and slit it and compressed it to fit insde the stick. A little welding on the slit and a few rosette welds and it's all done.... :)

Now, should you add a placard "ONE STICK MUST BE IN PLACE FOR FLIGHT"? ..... :D

gil in Tucson
 
Christmas in November

Golly!

I post a question in the morning and come back in the evening to nine responses. I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl :eek:

Thanks for all of the input - you are all great.

- the latch issue is OK I think, if I have a passenger, they can latch/unlatch, if not, I suspect I can lean over to do it.

- I'm going with push/pull knobs, much as I like levers and quadrants I'm steering towards simple and light. One set of controls, in the center, all mechanical, operable from either seat. I'd like to believe I can actually fly just as well left stick/right throttle, I just prefer right stick/left throttle. I also really want to have an ambidextrous plane.

- Carl, your photos are a no-show for me, I am curious to see them. Do you have a link?

- I love the idea of the right being smaller and able to fit into the left if I cut it off. I'll measure tonight. Otherwise, the internal sleeve idea is great and will solve that issue! I'll think about the placard :rolleyes:

- I'm thinking that the panel that is roughly mirrored left/right is the toughest nut to crack, fortunately that is down the road a ways. That the GRT's swap screens easily is a huge advantage - centering the radio stack may be the sticky bit.

George
 
grjtucson said:
- I'm thinking that the panel that is roughly mirrored left/right is the toughest nut to crack, fortunately that is down the road a ways. That the GRT's swap screens easily is a huge advantage - centering the radio stack may be the sticky bit.
George
Click to expand...

I was considering a symetrical panel too. Here's one thing I realized...all of the instruments are designed to be used with the right hand from the left side of the cockpit. I always find that when I'm in the right seat and try to tune a radio, or do something interesting with the avionics, I either have to put my left hand in an awkward position or I end up blocking the screen with my hand and can't see what I'm doing. This is mostly an issue with, say, tuning an SL30 or dialing something into the GPS on one of the Apollo/Garmin units, for example. The older instruments where the knobs aren't really lined up with the numbers don't have this problem. I guess the GRT probably won't have this problem either 'cause the knobs are at the bottom.

I dunno. It seems like a such a small thing that it's not even worth mentioning but it really does annoy me a little bit. It's funny what'll bother people sometimes...
 
Options

Another option I considered was to cut off both sticks and replace them with ONE stick between the seats as in the Australian Victa.
It would not be a difficult mod, although you would need to find a competent aircraft welder.
In the end I settled for the layout in the picture; with dual brakes.
Pete.
whzcockpitru9.jpg
 
opinion: you don't need an extra throttle

cfi's learn to fly from either seat -- it's not that hard to switch hands once you practice it a little while.

of course, it's your plane, so do what you want, but if it were mine, i'd forego the expense and work of the second throttle.

as a cfi, i didn't find the "hand switch" very difficult to learn at all.
 
Good Measurements

John P,
Thanks for the advice, that is what I'm intending. As I said above, I really want to build simple & light. I've flown plenty of hours left yoke / right throttle and plenty more right stick / left throttle, enough that I really don't think it'll matter much to me.

John C,
Same with the radios and other controls, I have two hands and can adapt. I do know what you mean though, it took me a while to get used to crossing my body with my left hand to tune the Garmin 250XL I have mounted on the right side of the panel in my Decathalon. I overcame though :cool:

As to the stick measurements, the left is, in fact, the same diameter as the base of the right :D Thus, I'll cut the left down and order another right stick and they'll both be removable.

I'm now trying to devise an electronic system that will detect when one stick is out and thereby lock the other one in so it cannot be removed. I have it down to two power transformers, three sensors, two custom magnetic locking cylinders, eighteen feet of wire, both fuse and breaker, a backup power unit, three display lights, and only 16 additional pounds (that is before it goes through an eight step priming and painting process)... :rolleyes:

... on second thought, I'll probably use some sort of simple retainer key drilled through both stick and base, and use simple connectors for the PTT wires.


Peter, gorgeous cockpit!


George
 
Why not just build as you indicate ... stock with a display in front of both seats and the controls in the center as they are typically done. You might put a few key switches in the center somewhere as well.

That way a "traditional" pilot could hop in the LEFT seat and feel right at home and you could hop in the RIGHT seat and fly it just as well. Then if for some unknown reason you decide to sell it, there won't be any questions.

Also, I seem to recall being told that one of the stick HAD to be non-removable in flight. I would GUESS the logic of the bigger stick on the left is to be able to overpower the one on the right if needed. Just my speculation but otherwise why bother changing that?

James
 
Stock, pretty much

James,

I am building as I indicated, stock with displays on each side and the power knobs in the center. No real departure there.

Regarding the sticks: my wife will want to ride left seat with no stick, I can promise, so I want both of them removable. I'll have it safely pinned in so that removing a stick can't be done accidently, but I do want them both removable, not just the right one.

(I do hope it's obvious that the "16lbs of safety inter-disconnect paragraph" was tongue-in-cheek)

I believe that the right one is smaller not for overpowering purposes for the left, simply so it is removable. I'll be doing nothing more than making the left stick match.

To recap, a minor modification to the left stick will be my only departure from the plans regarding this subject. Additionally, I intend for my panel layout will be a bit unique as it won't favor one side or the other with regard to displays, radios, switches, and power knobs.

George
 
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