R

rx3rv4

I'm New Here
I've recently started this project again and as soon as I think I'm making good progress I find that I may need to rework this spar again.

You see, after I have the hs-409 and the hs-403 riveted together I see a note telling me to dimple and counter sing the two pieces near the center. Is this absolutly nessesary? From my vantage point, it looks like I will need to buy 2 new 409's and 2 new 403's. Any input?

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2664/printpn2.jpg
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8312/hssparfl4.jpg
 
Yes, you DO need to dimple those holes and use flush rivets. That is where the horizontal stab bolts to the attachment bars in the fuselage. They are dimpled so the stab spar will fit flush with these bars. Hopes that helps.

Bryan
 
Should I attempt to dill out the rivets that I've set or just drive to vans and pick up four new pieces?
 
Is there some reason why you can't carefully drill out the rivets, dimple, c-sink and reassemble? Drilling out rivets is tedious but easy if you take your time.
 
rx3rv4 said:
Should I attempt to dill out the rivets that I've set or just drive to vans and pick up four new pieces?
Click to expand...
Try drilling them out. If you're careful you shouldn't have a problem. What have you got to lose? Worse case, you still gain experience.
 
I'm going to try and drill them out. So far I may be able to save the 409 strips but the 403's are starting to look like a lost cause.

I'm still new to the building process and my drilling skills are a bit lacking. I don't suppose there are any portland area rv4 builders reading any of this?
 
I don't have my plans near by, so I don't know the actual part numbers. If all of the rivets are set, you will have to drill out every one of them, top and bottom. Basically, you have to disassemble the whole thing. The reason is the top and bottom bars that join the left and right stab spar webs have to be machine countersunk to accept the dimple...the dimple is on the FORWARD side of the spar web.

Unfortunately, the only way to get access to the back side of the bars is to drill out the rivets and separate the parts. If you use a drill press, drilling out the rivets should be easy. Personally, I think it would be quicker to do it that way than to buy all new parts and start from scratch. I hope I am not raining on your parade, but that really is the only way to do it.

Edited: Oops, Mel and Steve beat me to it ;)
 
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Chill Out

Search this site for rivet drill out techniques. You should have no problem countersinking the spar unless you've built the entire HS, in which case you'll have more of a challenge. What's your status? I'll be glad to talk you through it.
 
Van's perspective

Last night I carefully admired my first set rivets, scouring over them with gauge in hand to ensure that I am doing this correctly. Horrified was I to see that I had set the rivets at the 1 3/8" mark the same direction as the other HS-403/HS-409 rivets. Recalling what I read on the plans I flipped the page....sure enough, they were set backwards! I checked this site to find this post. I knew it, I was doomed. I decided to call Van's today, just in case they had some optimistic view on my wrong doing. I post this reply not to argue what has been stated, but in case others search this same problem in the future.

Tom answers the phone, I explain my error. Expecting to hear a request for my debit card # so that I may order new parts, I was pleasantly surprised to hear a chuckle on the phone with "You don't think you were the first to do this, do you?" Tom went on to explain that all they expected me to do was drill out the four incorrect rivets, machine countersink the face of the rear spar to include the spar stiffeners, and set the correct rivets. He told me that they have handled this question "numerous" times. They prefer this fix to drilling out all of the rivets, correcting the problem, and then resetting it.

Just a "For what it is worth" comment.
 
practice drilling

Drilling rivets without damage is a necessary skill. As important as driving rivets. You should at least practice taking them out.
Personally I would not recommend using a drill press. Unless you have a very stiff setup, the drill start will inevitably wander and you need a handheld drill motor to chase the center.
It will become second nature after the first thousand...:) and rivet drilling skills will impress friends and family.
Having said that, the stab spar is no place to compromise on integrity. If you dont get clean holes... well, (RV) parts are inexpensive and It's nice to have some scrap material to fabricate misc. components out of.
 
Halfway there to drilling out as a second nature

I love this thread. I'm just finishing the flaps and I've counted over 500 rivets that I've drilled out now.
120 on the Horizontal Stablalizer to reverse platenutes
130 on the right wing skin to spar flange due to clinched rivets
130 on the left wing also clinched rivets
55 on left main skin also clinched rivets from back-rivetting
65 on right main skin from bad back-riveting
5 on aileron hinge bracket
4 on aileron brace on rear wing spar
20? miscellaneious here and there.

Another 500 and drilling out rivets will be second nature. I can hardly wait.

PS I ordered more rivets from Van's today.
 
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