C

Captain Avgas

Well Known Member
Has anybody out there purchased the Vans retrofit lockable fuel caps. These are the ones that require a new collar to be prosealed inside the old collar. My tanks are already built but I've now decided I want to be able to lock them. I'm interested in feed-back on quality and seal.

I'm not talking about the Vans lockable caps with the large collar. I've heard good reports on them but my collar is already in.
 
rv8ch said:
I've got a pair on my not-yet-flying RV8, and they seem fine.
Click to expand...


Very helpful Mickey. However I notice that the fuel cap on your site (no pull up lever) does not appear to be the same one as the ACS part number you quoted 05-01006 (has pull up lever). Can you tell me who makes these caps. Do you have a web site. I'd like to ask them a few questions.
 
Hello Bob

They are from Vans!

Friends of mine installed them in three flying RV's and are happy with them!
There is only a problem that the ring that you have to glue in, maybe is not anymore groundet, due to the glue/proseal. I do not have more information about that and how critical this is, maybe Mickey can make a few ohm mesurments.

Dominik
 
swisseagle said:
Hello Bob

They are from Vans!

Friends of mine installed them in three flying RV's and are happy with them!
There is only a problem that the ring that you have to glue in, maybe is not anymore groundet, due to the glue/proseal. I do not have more information about that and how critical this is, maybe Mickey can make a few ohm mesurments.

Dominik
Click to expand...


Dominik, that's a really good consideration re grounding...I never thought about that at all. Not sure what the answer is.

Does anybody else out there know who manufactures the following RV retrofit fuel caps.

As sold by Vans:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1133745248-402-39&browse=new&product=retro-cap

As sold by Aircraft Spruce:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/retrofitfc.php
 
Manufacturer

My really old RV-6A kit has Usher on the fuel cap boxes....

This came from a web search... don't know if it's still accurate...

USHER INDUSTRIES 503-647-0015 OEM RV FUEL CAPS

..gil in Tucson
 
fuel cap supplier

Not sure how many middle men are in there, but the guy that sold mine said they were produced by these guys: http://www.newton-equipment.com/

I also had not considered the issue of grounding. I'll check mine to see what I get.
 
fuel cap grounding

rv8ch said:
I also had not considered the issue of grounding. I'll check mine to see what I get.
Click to expand...
The rings that are pro-sealed (is that a verb?) into the old filler neck have so much anodizing that my multimeter could not get any current to flow at all.

Not sure if this is a dangerous thing or not.

Since static electricity can jump from plastic to plastic, I'm guessing that it is not necessary to have electrical current be able to flow from the filler opening to the rest of the airplane.

I'm going to post on the aeroelectric forum to see if anyone there knows.
 
rv8ch said:
The rings that are pro-sealed (is that a verb?) into the old filler neck have so much anodizing that my multimeter could not get any current to flow at all.

Not sure if this is a dangerous thing or not.

Since static electricity can jump from plastic to plastic, I'm guessing that it is not necessary to have electrical current be able to flow from the filler opening to the rest of the airplane.

I'm going to post on the aeroelectric forum to see if anyone there knows.
Click to expand...

Mickey, thanks for the Newton lead. I'm following them up and will report to this group if I hear anything. Good suggestion on the aeroelectric forum...I'll be monitoring that group for your question. There's a lot of gurus over there...some-one will know the answer.
 
I have the Jon Johanson (sp) fiberglass wing tip tanks fitted to my RV.

These wing tip tanks don't have the fuel cap grounded and so far in my case after nearly 4 years of use I have never experienced a problem.

I suppose if you were worried about this you could always touch the grounding lead from the fuel pump to the fuel cap before removing the cap. This would solve any potential (sic) problem assuming that is that the fuel cap is not painted.

Perhaps a further source of information on this subject would be from our Lancair and Glassair builder friends.

Barry
 
Static electricity, fuel, and filler caps

Background: My experience is in the chemical industry dealing with flammable solvents. I am a certified Hazardous Materials Technician and a firefighter.

Comments:
Static electricity and flammable fuels do not mix.
Our original RV tanks are aluminum and screwed to the airframe. If you ground the airframe, the tanks are grounded. The problem is not the filler ring, it is the tank. If the tank is grounded at the same potential as the nozzle, there will not be a static spark. The ground from the fuel truck accomplishes this as the nozzle is grounded to the truck as well as your airframe when they attach the ground wire. The flow of the fuel is what builds the static charge. The filler ring is not a problem.
The fiberglass wingtip fuel tanks could be a problem. If there was no metal strip incorporated into the design for grounding, there could be a sufficient static buildup to cause a spark. I have personally witnessed a fire resulting from filling a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a solvent with a similar flashpoint to gasoline. Many companies have now banned the use of plastic buckets with flammable solvents. Fiberglass is an insulator so it cannot dissipate the charge. One method of circumventing this is to make a ground strip using a short length of aluminum bar or strip with a wire and alligator clip. clip the wire to the metal wing structure and place the strip through the filler neck into the fuel.
An example of problems with plastic containers and fuel is the practice of filling 5 gallon fuel containers sitting in the back of a truck with a bed liner. This is a frequent cause of vehicle fueling fires. The reccomended practice is to place the container on the ground so that the charge slowly bleeds into the "ground". Gas containers are designed (materials) to be slightly conductive.
I welcome any comments. :)

Mark Dews
N885SM
 
Static problems

MarkDews said:
The reccomended practice is to place the container on the ground so that the charge slowly bleeds into the "ground". Gas containers are designed (materials) to be slightly conductive.
I welcome any comments.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the info, Mark.

I've been completely ignorant of these problems for the past 30 odd years, since I've been playing with gasoline in various types of engines. Further proof that God protects fools and children.

Looks like I'll be tossing out my old plastic cans, originally kerosene containers for my heater, and buying some good metal gas cans.

In case you did not see this link Carl Morgan posted on the aeroelectric list, it's got a great article on static electricity and fueling aircraft:

http://www.caa.govt.nz/fulltext/vector/vector_05_5_sept_oct 05.pdf
 
Grounding

The fiberglass wingtip fuel tanks could be a problem. If there was no metal strip incorporated into the design for grounding, there could be a sufficient static buildup to cause a spark.

Mark,
I assume you are saying that the Fuel develops a charge flowing through the hose.
If that is the case, would attaching the earth line to the metal Fuel Drain 'Ground' the fuel.

Pete.
 
cap manufacturer

I have tracked down the manufacturer of the Vans Deluxe fuel caps and also their Retrofit caps. In both cases it's Newton Industries based in the U.K. This is their web site:

http://www.newton-equipment.com/

They obviously make very good quality products. I am told that they will definitely not let water into the tank....unfortunately the same cannot be said of the standard Vans caps which are a very rough product in my opinion..
 
Vince,
I was thinking about getting some of these. Have you had any problems at airports with fuel nozzles being too big with the reduced openings?

Thanks,
Tobin
 
No not at all

I have never had any trouble at any airports. Not even close to having any trouble. The overall advantages of the caps would far outway the possible time you would have trouble with a big nozzle. The nozzle is going to have to be really big before it does not fit. These caps are on my must have list for my next bird.
 
Water in fuel

Many pilots drain a bit of water from their tanks and suspect condensation, but it's almost always fuel cap leakage. In fact if you have good sealing caps you'll probably never drain any water from your fuel in 20 years (providing of course that the fuel itself is from a reliable source).

However any water in the fuel is of course a serious situation and even a small quantity can lead to power interruption at that most crucial time...take-off. Flush caps are particularly prone to water leakage so I would not compromise on quality in that area. There are several components that Vans sell with his kits that are not up to scratch in my humble opinion...they're just not up to a reasonable aviation quality. The standard fuel cap is one such item.
 
Mickey,

I see you got your caps from Spruce, but the picture on your website looks like the ones from Van's where as the one's from Spruce seem to have a cover over the key hole. Can you confirm?

Thanks,
Tobin
 
tobinbasford said:
Mickey,

I see you got your caps from Spruce, but the picture on your website looks like the ones from Van's where as the one's from Spruce seem to have a cover over the key hole. Can you confirm?

Thanks,
Tobin
Click to expand...


As it turns out the RV retrofit fuel caps that ACS sell are exactly the same ones that Vans sells (the Newton product). However ACS has the wrong picture on their website. They've been told it's wrong but they just like to confuse everyone....they confused me!!!
 
Fiberglass tip tanks and grounding

fodrv7 said:
The fiberglass wingtip fuel tanks could be a problem. If there was no metal strip incorporated into the design for grounding, there could be a sufficient static buildup to cause a spark.

Mark,
I assume you are saying that the Fuel develops a charge flowing through the hose.
If that is the case, would attaching the earth line to the metal Fuel Drain 'Ground' the fuel.

Pete.
Click to expand...

Yes, attaching the ground from the fuel truck or pump to the drain valve would work. The metal grounding "post" must contact the fuel. Getting the fuel truck driver to attach the ground to the valve may be a little tougher.

Yes, the fuel builds up the charge as it flows through the hose. Same mechanism as walking on carpet and touching metal.

Mark dews
N885SM
 
You must log in or register to reply here.