K

KayS

Well Known Member
hi,

i'm a german citizen and i was send by my company in germany to the usa to support our us-partners here. it seems like that i will stay here in the usa for a couple of years. i wanted to start to build an rv7 in germany but i postboned it because of the shifting issue to the usa. so i decided to build it here in the usa. and now here's my problem:

if i want to fly the completed rv7 later on in germany under a german registration i have to stick to the german approval and administration process for an experimental. it means for instance that i have to send during the building process the emp-, wing- and fuslage-skeletons to germany to an approved examiner (before the skins are riveted on) who checks if everything is ok and sends it back to me. that will be very expensive and time-consuming. i am not allowed to do the flight testing here or to register the plane under us-n-registration. if i do this there will be no way to convert it at home to an german-d-registration.

one option for me is to build the plane in the usa under german regulations and to do the flight test in germany. when i bring the plane back from germany to the usa later on, is it possible to fly it in the usa under a german experimental-registration?

if the first option just doesn't work, i could build the plane under the us-administration process, fly it here under n-reg and than fly it later (when they let me go home one day) in germany also with an n-registration. (but this is very limited and regulated) what kind of paperwork and admin work do i have to do to build and fly an us-experimental in the us? is there any guideline or checklist available which explains the process? (if there is any process)

i was speaking already with the german aviation authority about this but they couldn't answer my questions. during the phone calls i had the feeling as if i plan to make a crime. but i don't want to rape or kill somebody, i just want to build an fly an airplane. i really love the usa but one day i will go back home and use the plane there.

hope that somebody can help or give some advise or tips.

Kay
huntsville/al

BTW the emp is half finished. :)
 
US registration

Herzlich willkommen bei VAF, Kay!

There are hundreds if not thousands of N registered aircraft flying in Europe. I don't have details on all the rules, but I know of some that have been at my airport for years.

Since you probably have a JAR license, you could register your N-registered experimental in any EU country and fly it anywhere, if you feel there is an issue flying with a N-registered aircraft.

I would not attempt to do a remote D- registration, far too much hassle.

Worst case, build and fly in the US, and then sell it before you leave. Build another one when you get back to DE - the 2nd one will go together much quicker. :)

Get in touch with other RV builders in your neighborhood - there are some really good people around Huntsville. They will be happy to help you!
 
Instead of sending the parts over to Germany for inspection, would it be cheaper to just buy a plane ticket for a German inspector to come over here? Build everything you can with the wings, the fuse, and the emp up to the point of inspection and then have a German inspector come over and inspect it.

If it were me and I knew that I would be returning to Germany in a reasonable amount of time, I would have it registered in Germany and just fly it over here.
 
Registration

Something to consider. In order to register with an "N" number you must be a US citizen or 51% US operating company. You may have to form a single purpose entity in Delaware or someplace that "owns" the aircraft.

I'd check with one of the title companies in OKC and/or and aviation attorney and get their advise. I'm not familiar with how it's done with small aircraft "N" registered in Europe, but that is how corporate ones are handled.
 
US Registration

Don't think the last message is quite right. I am a UK and a Canadian Citizen, and I bought, built, registered and flew an N numbered RV-9A while working in the US, under the FAA Oklahoma approval of my Canadian PPL. At no time was I requested to verify or confirm nationality or residence legality (I was legal by the way).

The N numbering may be the way to go, and make sure the fuel tanks are big enough for the long flight back to Europe....and I think you may be able to re-register the aircraft in Holland, but be based in Germany, as I understand many people are doing due to the less stringent aviation law requirements in the Netherlands.

Allan
 
Kay

I know in the UK, many people import finished RV's from the US. Just see if that's possible.
ie build and fly on an N number and convert to a D later.

Peter
 
thanks

thank you guys for your helpful response.

as i understand it, for the n-registration i have to be an us-citizen or 51%-us-company-holder only in order to operate the plane in germany.

(btw i think regarding aviation, in us-america there are much less regulations, but these few make just more sense compared to the european ones...)

if i stick to the german process for homebuild i have to plan well in advance and a lot of time for the flight test phase in germany. due to my very limited vacation this is almost impossible. and i also have to think about the interests of my employer, this is more important. so i think that i should go ahead with building the rv under american regulations and fly it under n-reg later in germany. actual i didn't want to to this but it seems like the german laws leave me no other chance.

everybody in germany knows that this us-trust-51%-holding is a fake, but if they want it like that... does anybody knows which costs i have to calculate for this idiocy?

thank you...

kay stecklum
 
Hi Kay,

I have been in the same situation than you - German citizen, sent to the US for a few years and I'm now back in Germany. I have built one plane in the US and now building an RV 8a in Germany.

My first plane (built in the US) was built under FAA rules. The RV 8a is being built under LBA (German) rules.
If you want to built in the US you cannot do this under LBA rules. You need to have certain checks by your 'Pr?fer' and 'Gutachter' during the construction period. That is most likely impossible when doing this in the US.
The other way around - building the plane under FAA rules in the US - and later on fly it in Germany is very simple.
First, for building a plane you need to be an US citizen or a permament residant allien. I recommend to go for the latter and get a green card. There are law firms in the US that can help you with this. Costs are approx. US 6,000 and it will take 1 1/2 years. In any case, you can start already building, since you need the green card only for the registration, once the plane is finished. As far as the actual registration process is concerned, this is very easy compared to Germany. I recommend to join the EAA - they have detailed information how to register the airplane.
When you are going back to Germany you simply ship the plane in a container to Europe. No taxes, custom duty, etc. are required, since the plane belongs to you. To fly it in Germany you will need a 'Einflugerlaubnis', which needs to be renewed every year. This is amazingly simple - just send a letter to the LBA including all the paperwork, insurance certificate and your US pilot license (or validation) and the LBA will send back the Einflugerlaubnis. They won't even charge you anything...

Feel free to contact me, if you have any further questions.

Thilo
 
@ thilo

hi thilo,

hey "danke danke" for your info. i hope that i don't need a green card. i work in an governmental program and for this they gave me an working visa. so i am a non-residential alien. maybe this works also.

lass uns mal direkt schreiben oder telefonieren, wuerde mich sehr interessieren... bis dann.

kay
 
There are hundreds if not thousands of N registered aircraft flying in Europe. I don't have details on all the rules, but I know of some that have been at my airport for years
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that this only applies to certified aircraft. Experimental aircraft don't have have an ICAO C of A and don't have automatic right of flight in other countires.

I know that in the UK you have to apply to the CAA for permission to operate an N registered Experimental (or any other countries' AB aircraft for that matter) in UK airspace. Permission is granted for a maximum of 28 (or is it 30?) days in any one year. US built experimentals that get imported into the UK are put onto the G register, provided that they pass inspection by the LAA (the organisation that oversees amateur built aircraft on the UK).


Brooklands
 
Hi Kay,

I am german and build an RV-7 in germany - how boring ;-)

One idea - did you think about registration in another european country, the Netherlands for example? I know of at least one german going that route (he's based in germany) because the certification process is a bit simpler than in germany. I'm not sure if they have any issues with the plane being built in the US, but if it works out you'll have an airplane with an european registration, that should make matters easier here.

Good luck,

Mario (Fuselage and finish kit should be on the water by the end of this week)
 
KayS said:
@ thilo

hi thilo,

hey "danke danke" for your info. i hope that i don't need a green card. i work in an governmental program and for this they gave me an working visa. so i am a non-residential alien. maybe this works also.

lass uns mal direkt schreiben oder telefonieren, wuerde mich sehr interessieren... bis dann.

kay
Click to expand...

The H1B (or any other work visa) doesn't work for aircraft registration. I am here on an H1B too.

You can however own a US registered corporation that owns and registers the aircraft. You can even register it without 51% US ownership as long as you certify to the FAA every 6 months that the majority of the flights of the aircraft have been within the US. This should work well for the duration you are here.

This is what I plan to do....that is whenever I get around to actually pulling the trigger :rolleyes:
 
KayS said:
if i want to fly the completed rv7 later on in germany under a german registration i have to stick to the german approval and administration process for an experimental. it means for instance that i have to send during the building process the emp-, wing- and fuslage-skeletons to germany to an approved examiner (before the skins are riveted on) who checks if everything is ok and sends it back to me. that will be very expensive and time-consuming.
Click to expand...

How many times exactly the plane has to be "examined"? Just thinking that it might be much cheaper to give a airline ticket to the examiner to visit USA. Also are you sure that you'll finish the plane while being in States? If not, you probably end up doing flight testing in Germany -- does that change anything?

Good luck and keep riveting that empennage!
 
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