TX7A

TX7A

Well Known Member
I'm getting information that EAA headquarters decided to cease branding regional fly-ins as EAA events and will no longer insure regional events.

The word I'm hearing is that SWRFI (The EAA Texas Fly-in) is being cancelled for 2008.

If this is true, I was wondering how that will affect the other regional fly-ins.

(Hoping this is just a bad rumor...) :(
 
rumor

I have heard some talk from organizers to the same effect. Might hear something more next week. I would like to be in on the meetings at EAA HQ.
 
SWRFI is canceled

7A_@ABI said:
I'm getting information that EAA headquarters decided to cease branding regional fly-ins as EAA events and will no longer insure regional events.

The word I'm hearing is that SWRFI (The EAA Texas Fly-in) is being cancelled for 2008.

If this is true, I was wondering how that will affect the other regional fly-ins.

(Hoping this is just a bad rumor...) :(
Click to expand...

Yes, SWRFI has been cancelled. I believe what will happen is that the other, more local grassroot fly-ins will see an increase in popularity.
b,
dr

"EAA TEXAS FLY-IN CANCELLED FOR 2008

Stan Shannon, Chairman and CEO of the Southwest Regional Fly-In, Inc., also known as the EAA Texas Fly-In, announced that the officers and directors of the SWRFI voted to cancel the fly-in scheduled for October 10-11, 2008 and to ultimately cease operations.

The board made this decision as a result of the following:
1. EAA headquarters decided to cease branding regional fly-ins as EAA events.
2. EAA will no longer insure regional events.
3. Dwindling attendance numbers
4. Fewer volunteers
The board felt that losing the EAA brand would make it increasingly difficult to obtain sponsors, exhibitors, and volunteers.

The SWRFI, debt free and in sound financial condition, will support youth in aviation. The board of directors voted to create a youth scholarship fund. Scholarships will assist deserving young men and women in attending aviation related educational programs. Chapters will be notified of the scholarship application process in the coming months. In addition, the SWRFI sponsored EAA Young Eagles, Hondo Aviation Day, will continue as planned and is scheduled for March 15, 2008.

As the direction of the SWRFI changes, and as an exciting 46-year aviation era ends, we look back with gratitude to Tony Bingelis who founded the fly-in, Paul Poberenzy who founded EAA, the many chapters, dedicated EAA volunteers, sponsors and the exhibitors who made this fly-in possible.

Call 866-797-3407 for additional information.
www.swrfi.org"
​
 
[ed. Political/Lawyer text removed by DeltaRomeo (inconsistant with posting rules )]
 
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I attended a meeting with the National EAA members in Lakeland Florida(Sun-n-Fun) last year. They were there to explain to the local chapter officers that the EAA would end their relationship with Sun-N-Fun.
The word was that back in the early days, it was a handshake relationship. With this litigious society and high insurance rates, a break was in order.
SNF has evolved into more than a fly-in and offered other amenities.
Their own organization self-insures at this point.

We as aviators will continue to attend and volunteer as this is a passion in our lives.

Now, what is to become of the EAA, "Will the EAA survive?" or will this be just an Airventure/OshKosh event?

How about the local chapters?
 
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I think another cause was EAA being a named in a lawsuit brought against the Arlington fly-in, and won (in excess of 10 million if I remember correctly).

I know people connected with the Copperstate fly-in. They fully intend to continue, but I am not sure if they have looked into the feasibility in getting insurance yet.
 
AOPA-EAA

These organizations seem to be gravitating to the same function. If you have read "Poberezny - The Story Begins" you may be amazed at the independent pioneer spirit behind the EAA. It is my experience that those individuals that sacrifice everything to create an organization and do not compromise in their efforts to make it succeed are very rare and they are irreplaceable. When their position is taken over by others the decline starts. I think that is what we are seeing within the EAA and the merger of EAA into the AOPA is likely to happen somewhere down the road. Just one man's observation.

Bob Axsom
 
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This breaks my heart to hear this.

Does anyone know if this means they will not insure a local fly-in?

We (Charlotte, Salisbury, Hickory, NC and Columbia & Rock Hill, SC) are planning on hosting joint fly-in at LKR on June 14th and if we can't get insurance, it is over, and if is over, I'll drop my EAA membership as I see no reason to remain in an orginization that doesn't support they type of flying I like to do. Besides, I'm already an AOPA member and they don't support the type of flying I like to do.
 
You know, I hate to paddle against the tide here, but I'm with Doug. I think more intimate, more grassroots fly-ins are not a bad substitute at all for the EAA-branded fly-ins.

The risk of lawsuit from smaller groups is reduced, because there isn't money to go after.

Plus, I think the atmosphere created by the "just a bunch of folks getting together" trumps the "things you have to put up with so that the average person buys a ticket" approach.

I think there'll be more authentic fly-ins as a result.
 
long-term demographics

Has the EAA or anyone else published a study on the long-term demographics of kitplane builders? I'd expect that with boomer era retirements, kit builders would increase for 10-15 years and then plummet.
 
grass roots fly ins

I like the grass roots type of fly-ins better, but what will keep someone from suing them to death either? This insurance thing is really taking the fun out of flying! It is pretty sad when the first consideration for anything you do anymore is " whats my liability?" I know of one airport operator that won't allow any EAA activity just for that reason.
 
N941WR said:
We (Charlotte, Salisbury, Hickory, NC and Columbia & Rock Hill, SC) are planning on hosting joint fly-in at LKR on June 14th and if we can't get insurance, it is over, and if is over, I'll drop my EAA membership as I see no reason to remain in an orginization that doesn't support they type of flying I like to do. Besides, I'm already an AOPA member and they don't support the type of flying I like to do.
Click to expand...

I'm a member of both EAA and AOPA, as I'm sure many here are, and I plan to renew for a long time. They still serve us well, just in different ways.

As for flyins, by far the best flyin I went to for a few years was an informal one here in N. California. It was "organized" by a local EAA chapter, but not advertised except by word of mouth. No vendors, no exhibits, no airshow, no roaming public. Just lots of pilots and their planes--mostly homebuilts and vintage/classic--on a dichondra farm that once a year the owner would have a flyin on.

The owner died, the flyin stopped. But there's nothing to stop a group of pilots to show up at a local airport by word-of-mouth. Why do we need vendors and all that? Schedule a real flyin, bring a sack lunch.
 
Bob Collins said:
You know, I hate to paddle against the tide here, but I'm with Doug. I think more intimate, more grassroots fly-ins are not a bad substitute at all for the EAA-branded fly-ins.

The risk of lawsuit from smaller groups is reduced, because there isn't money to go after.

Plus, I think the atmosphere created by the "just a bunch of folks getting together" trumps the "things you have to put up with so that the average person buys a ticket" approach.

I think there'll be more authentic fly-ins as a result.
Click to expand...


Bob,
You hit the nail on the head.
We in FL just attended an annual fly-in a few weeks ago at Winter Haven(near Orlando).
It is well supported every year.
They offer up a great BBQ with all you can eat including desserts.
All this for $5.00.
 
rfinch said:
I'm a member of both EAA and AOPA, as I'm sure many here are, and I plan to renew for a long time. They still serve us well, just in different ways.
Click to expand...

Hear here. The EAA can't win. This is a big step in the direction that a lot of folks said they wanted... getting back to the roots... the grassroots...homebuilding... and less commercial endeavors. These regional fly-ins have been good, but they're commercial endeavors.

Of all the checks I write in the course of a year, the check I write to EAA is the one I don't think twice about.

AirVenture remains the highlight of my year... homebuilding airplanes...after family... is the highlight of my life.
 
DeltaRomeo said:
Yes, SWRFI has been cancelled. I believe what will happen is that the other, more local grassroot fly-ins will see an increase in popularity.
b,
dr
Click to expand...

This has already essentially happened locally because of an insurance issue. There has been an on-again off-again Air Faire at the local airport. When it started up again a few years ago, the local EAA Chapter was the sponser and hoped to use it as a fund raising event for permanent facilities. There was a tiff over insurance (were we covered or not) and an issue of compensating the owner of several jet display aircraft. The EAA Chapter was essentially told our help wasn't needed and was given an eviction notice by the owner of the building we were using for meetings (same owner of the jet aircraft).

The good news is that the Air Faire continues and is now sponsored by the city and the visitors bureau and is billed as a family event. It draws a fairly good crowd and now includes show cars as well. There are even a couple of air show events. Many of the volunteers are members of the EAA Chapter, but the Chapter itself is not involved.

Our Chapter found another meeting spot at another local airport. I like to believe that our move there has helped save that airport from a threat of closure and land sale. We're still trying to raise money for permanent facilities and we'll eventually get there.

Anyone have several thousand dollars they don't need?
 
Bob Collins said:
Hear here. The EAA can't win. This is a big step in the direction that a lot of folks said they wanted... getting back to the roots... the grassroots...homebuilding... and less commercial endeavors. These regional fly-ins have been good, but they're commercial endeavors.

Of all the checks I write in the course of a year, the check I write to EAA is the one I don't think twice about.

AirVenture remains the highlight of my year... homebuilding airplanes...after family... is the highlight of my life.
Click to expand...

Let's see, you live in Minnesota and the big show in Wisconsin is the highlight of your year. If I follow your logic the EAA could really promote grass roots aviation activities if they stopped AirVenture. What do you think of that?

Bob Axsom
 
It's easy

......but quite a bit of work. We had a spring catfish/shrimp fly-in and drew 30 airplanes (25 RV's) and 60 attendees,, with donations to cover food costs. A couple guys went up and did a mini airshow for us and it was great!

This fall, we had a Low-country boil/fly-in with our EAA Chapter helping and attending.....60 airplanes and 125 total attendance....mini-airshow.

I agree, small can be really great, no insurance worries, but it is quite a bit of work to load and unload tables and chairs, cleanup, etc, but many hands whittle the workload down.

Regards,
 
What is a fly-in?

Bob Collins said:
Does a fly-in have to be a mini Oshkosh? Personally, I don't think so. If others do, well... great for them, I say.
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A fly-in just has to have one (or more) planes fly-in.

At our airport we have the Waco fly-in every year and the Monocoupe fly-in every other year. It's just a bunch of planes that fly-in for the weekend and then sit around and exchange stores, fly around the pattern, and have a couple of cook-outs. Great fun.
 
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Throw in a couple of "forums," and what's not to love? The "insurance thing" got most of the publicity (although we never actually hear specific numbers in these sorts of things), but pay attention to the other factors that were listed as reason:

(1) Declining attendance
(2) Fewer volunteers

Compare that to some of the grassroots fly-ins -- especially RV fly-ins -- in which attendance is increasing and everyone wants to chip in?

These fly-ins, it seems to me, that are growing in popularity are in touch with the roots of aviation -- not big vendor malls or airshows (Even at Oshkosh, after you've seen it a few times, it's pretty much the same) -- but "community."

"Community" doesn't make a lot of money, true. But why does it have to?
 
Bob Collins said:
"Community" doesn't make a lot of money, true. But why does it have to?
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Amen, brother!

Our local airport group (http://www.foua.org) has for a few years staged an "Open House"--a static display of mainly airport-based airplanes, along with some visiting airplanes. NO airshow, vendors, barking PA systems, etc. Well there is a skydiver from a local skydiving club, but that's it.

We advert it to the town and get several hundred visitors. It's quiet because there are no demos. That means moms feel safe bringing their kids after soccer. They get to wander up close to the airplanes and talk to us, the pilots and owners. Great fun for all. They can't believe it when I say my Aircoupe cost $25,000--the price of an average car (they think you have to be super-rich to afford to fly).

We bill it as a Transportation Day and also have antique/muscle cars, old-timey bicycles, you-name-it. Take a look at photos of some of the last ones.

Workload? We split it among a half-dozen people in our group and it's a total of maybe 20 hours work.
 
Reginal Fly-ins

Reginal Fly-ins are big and they reach a much larger part of the population than the small fly-ins that individual pilots favor and they are not mutually exclusive. The publications say that the U.S. pilot population is under 600,000 now. Maybe the SARL can bring some interest back into flying for the public enjoyment and stimulation.

Bob Axsom
 
Best Fly-in

Best Fly-in I've been to is a small grass roots type. Not affilated with the EAA, AOPA or any other. It was at Smoketoew airport and put on by the local pilots for the fun of getting together and swaping stories. Great fun was had by all who attended. I liked the people so much I signed up for a hanger.:D

This is why I'm building a plane not just the ability to get places, but the people at the places I'll go.

Hope to see you around the patch, and Merry Christmas to all.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
I think another cause was EAA being a named in a lawsuit brought against the Arlington fly-in, and won (in excess of 10 million if I remember correctly).

I know people connected with the Copperstate fly-in. They fully intend to continue, but I am not sure if they have looked into the feasibility in getting insurance yet.
Click to expand...

Here is the lawsuit story:

"Wednesday, January 10, 2007

Air show must pay after man's death

P-I NEWS SERVICES

EVERETT -- A jury has awarded $10.5 million to the family of a Bellevue pilot who died in a 1999 crash at a Northwest Experimental Aircraft Association air show in Arlington, the plaintiffs' lawyers reported Tuesday.

The Snohomish County Superior Court jury reached a verdict last month in a lawsuit filed by Don Corbitt's family. On July 7, 1999, Corbitt crashed in his self-built RV-6 shortly after takeoff during the Northwest EAA Fly-in at the Arlington Municipal Airport. He survived the impact but became trapped in the burning wreckage.

Bystanders emptied fire extinguishers while trying to save him and waited more than five minutes for firefighters to arrive, said the plaintiffs' lawyer, Robert Hedrick.

After a 2 1/2-week trial, the jury found that the air show's sponsors, the Northwest EAA the national Experimental Aircraft Association, were liable for not providing adequate fire and emergency response services."

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/299120_airshow10.html?source=mypi
 
The newspaper did not have anyone at the trial, not did it cover the story, nor sift through any documents. Neither did Jim Campbell who, nonetheless, stirred everyone up with a wail after the Everett newspaper reported it.

I beg you all to read all of the material related to this story before we start another "kill all lawyers" thread.

Here's my first article. Here's the second article.

It's worth noting, that EAA was pulling back from "branding" two years before the jury verdict in this case (and I *think* before this suit was filed, but don't quote me). I think the evidence suggests EAA didn't see a profitable return from these mini-Oshkoshes. And I'm not altogether sure their involvement didn't harm the effort. They're a big organization with some deep pockets and made a good target, while providing relatively little in return.
 
I like both the regional fly-ins and the grass roots types. Acutally, I like them all.

Arlington is great for me because I travel less than 200 miles to get there, while Oshkosh is 2,000 miles away and costs 10 times as much to attend when you factor in housing, transportation, etc. At Arlington I talked with engine shops, Aerosport, Eagle, Lycoming, etc., GPS outfits, AvMap & Lowrance (Garmin was absent this year because Arlington was scheduled too close to Oshkosh), Icom & many other vendors. Lots of forums. Only 10% or so as large as Oshkosh, but most of the essential stuff I wanted to see / hear was there.

The Northwest Antique Aircraft club sponsors one of the most fungrass roots fly-ins I have ever seen, with usually 500+ antiques, a few RV's & others, all just a very friendly fly-in. Not much commercial representation, just a lot of fun, right across the road from the McMinnville museum housing the Spruce Goose.

Richard Scott
RV-9A Fuselage
1941 Interstate Cadet
 
EAA's view

I emailed the EAA, here's what they said:

"I know there's been something issued by the Southwest (or Texas) Fly-In regarding the cancellation of their 2008 fly-in. I had a chance to scan that statement late last week. While I can't speak for the reasons for that organizing body to make their decision (they haven't made an official notification to EAA as of yet, as far as I know), their statement regarding lack of support from EAA was not accurate.

"Several months ago, EAA headquarters staff and the organizers of all the major and regional EAA fly-ins began their regular review of the support and relationship to these fly-ins. It's an opportunity to discuss matters that could impact these events and what some solutions might be.

"The top priority is the effort to make these events stronger as individual events. In addition, we always look for ways to build the relationship between the events and the EAA organization and members. The environment in which these events operate is much different than it was 40 years ago, or even 10 years ago. Much of that is due to liability and insurance issues. The insurance marketplace has changed greatly over that time. So how do we ensure that these regional events can keep going and be insured properly? Part of the discussion was finding way to make these fly-ins viable for the long term for both EAA and the local groups that organize them, in light of the changing needs for facilities, volunteers, insurance and other items.

"As I mentioned, what was described in the statement released by the Southwest Fly-In did not accurately reflect those discussions. First, no complete agreement had been finalized - it's still a work in progress. Why they decided to issue their own statement, I don't know. Also, some of the ideas being discussed would actually mean enhanced EAA involvement at these major fly-ins while helping protect their interests.

"I hope that clarifies things a bit."

Straight from the horse's mouth! Pete
 
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