R

Rutus

Well, in light of my introduction to aerobatics, I have been looking at G meters. Spruce has a 3 1/8" unit, OH condition, and also a cheaper 2 1/4" Falcon unit. Stein has the Falcon units, but notes they are way back-ordered. Chief shows these same units too, but also with a 3 1/8" version (or maybe that was Stein...) :confused:

Anyway, from looking at the photos, the Spruce 3 1/8" OH unit seems to have a better dial layout for my tastes. And, I have a Falcon electric T&B and while it works fine, it is not exactly the epitome of fine engineering and precision machinery, to me.

Any recommendations on what unit would be best? It seems like these ought to be pretty simple and reliable devices, whoever makes them.
 
Accelerometer

Here is one electronic one that does not look like it will not break the bank and cost well under $200:

http://www.fdatasystems.com/GT_50.htm

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/gt50_2.php

One on ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GT-5...6904042QQihZ012QQcategoryZ90977QQcmdZViewItem

(you get a flight timer and volt meter as well in one gauge, cool)


I bought two old 2.25" military G-meters (mechanical) off of ebay with good luck. They cost about $80 to $100 a year or so ago. If you have time you can find them. The down side with 2-1/4" surplus stuff is they are heavy little buggers and they're old.

Falcon........ummmmm I just have bad vibes about them, but no personal experience. Comes down to you get what you pay for.

The vertical scale that you glue on is just a fish scale, but has no recording indicator, so its useless.
 
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gmcjetpilot said:
Here is one electronic one that does not look like it will not break the bank and cost well under $200:

http://www.fdatasystems.com/GT_50.htm

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/gt50_2.php...
Click to expand...
Some people claim to be able to read and interpret digital displays as fast as they can analog. I can't, so unless you can I would recommend an analog display. Two big things that mystify me are why someone would want a veneer throttle or a digital accelerometer. But that's me!
 
tonyjohnson said:
Does anyone have any feedback on how well the G meters included with the GRT EFIS works?
Click to expand...

I guess it works OK....to tell the truth, when I am flying acro, my eyes aren't inside the cockpit, so with 480 hours on the airplane with the GRT, with a lot of acro, I don't know that I have looked at the G on the display more than a few times. Larry is really right - for a quick glance, it is hard to beat needles!

When I have looked at it, it seems to work just fine BTW....

Paul
 
The Falcon or whatever the Chinese one I got from Van's about 6 years ago is junk. It has always read .5 g high, and has no external adjustment. It is the only Chinese thing in the panel, and it needs to go. I'd get one of the electronic ones, since what really matters is what the limits were.
 
Anyone have experience with the GT-50? The Aircraft Spruce add leads me to believe the readout is only for min/max and not a continuous reading as one would want during aerobatics? I can't believe this is true but the add says nothing about a continuous readout??

Anyone have a recommendation on a mechanical/analog/needle type as I feel this would be more user friendly at a glance as stated above??

Maybe I'll just get a fish scale and hang it from the glareshield with a 1 lb weight!!!:D I don't plan on a lot of negetive G's anyway. Or get 2 fish scales and place the 1 lb weight between them so they can play tug-o-war and presto, +/- readout for under 10 bucks!! Find a way to damp the movement and it'd be great as long as the weight doesn't come free and start bouncing around! hehe.:eek:
 
Analogue - 3.125 Model

Grant, I ended up going with the analogue 3 1/8" mechanical type from Spruce, sold in overhauled condition. It showed up looking basically brand new, with telltale pointers for min and max G, and a third pointer for continuous readout. Easy reset of min/max pointers with one twist of the knob. I am very happy with it so far, it takes a little practice to keep one eye on that while flying the maneuvers, but that would be true regardless of the means of display.

JW
 
Falcon = junk

AlexPeterson said:
The Falcon or whatever the Chinese one I got from Van's about 6 years ago is junk. It has always read .5 g high, and has no external adjustment. It is the only Chinese thing in the panel, and it needs to go. I'd get one of the electronic ones, since what really matters is what the limits were.
Click to expand...

Ditto. My Falcon reads 1/2g low sitting on the bench. Second one I've had since the first read 1/2g high. Uggh.... forget it. Vans should pull this junk from the market.

Better to pay for quality than throw $$ away on Chinese junk.
 
I may go with this one....

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/accelerometers2.php

No holes to drill in the panel and I'm not too concerned with recording min/max??

How much do you guys care for the min/max recording option?? I suppose it would allow you to check after a maneuver rather than during it. But mostly I'm concerned with teaching my butt what a 3-4 G pull up feels like and once my butt is calibrated I doubt I'll use it often.

Again, thoughts re: above??
 
grantcarruthers said:
Anyone have experience with the GT-50? The Aircraft Spruce add leads me to believe the readout is only for min/max and not a continuous reading as one would want during aerobatics? I can't believe this is true but the add says nothing about a continuous readout??

Anyone have a recommendation on a mechanical/analog/needle type as I feel this would be more user friendly at a glance as stated above??

Maybe I'll just get a fish scale and hang it from the glareshield with a 1 lb weight!!!:D I don't plan on a lot of negetive G's anyway. Or get 2 fish scales and place the 1 lb weight between them so they can play tug-o-war and presto, +/- readout for under 10 bucks!! Find a way to damp the movement and it'd be great as long as the weight doesn't come free and start bouncing around! hehe.:eek:
Click to expand...

I've been considering the GT-50 for my RV-6 because I like the additional features of V-meter, clock, and automatic flight timer (which I really like since I don't have a Hobbs and keep forgeting to turn on my West Bend timer at start up). I also like the fact that it only weighs 2.5 ounces. Was just looking at the Flight Data Systems website and from reading the customer testimonials I was given the impression that the G readout is continuous readout and pretty easy to interpret G loading trends, though reading the manual leaves one with the impression that it only shows max. positive/negative load.
____________________________

Customer testimonial:

Sat, 31 Mar 2007

Flight Data Systems GT-50 tested

I have been testing the new Flight Systems GT-50 in my SU-26. As mentioned earlier this year, this is an extremely light weight G-meter with voltmeter, clock, and timer functions. The 2 1/4 " display is highly visible in direct sunlight. The size and crystal clarity of the display allows the pilot's eyes to effortlessly pass over the G-meter during a pull, taking a snapshot of momentary G-load. Try that with a mechanical G-meter! G sensitivity and accuracy are within 1% of my Russian G-meter. Commands are intuitive. I was able to eliminate my original voltmeter, a clock, and one of two other G-meters at a savings of almost 2 pounds. The GT-50 has proven to be rugged, surviving a drop on the floor before installation by a ham handed A & P.

All steady positive and negative changes of pitch demonstrated identical G readings with the Russian accelerometer. Multiple snap rolls at around a 9+ G load gave a .1 G difference between technologies. I could not tell which one was correct, but the agreement is well within any desired limits. I suspect that mechanical G meters are somewhat distorted by rotational G loads contributing to the momentum of the mechanical arms. Snapping to right gave .1 G more. Snapping to left gave .1 G less than the GT-50. Solid state G sensors also have an update of 4 times /sec.

Selling for less than $200, I have not seen anything this impressive in a long time.

Rick Volker
_____________________________

smallgmeter1.jpg


Looks pretty easy to read if you ask me, then again, I flew a Maule for eight years with a vernier throttle and got to where I really liked it, especially off airport, so YMMV.
 
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Try Century Instruments

I have purchased sereral overhauled 3-1/8" G meters from Century Instruments - one for me Eagle, and then one for my Pitts. They are overhauled units, but Century does a complete overhaul and yellow tag, including new glass, new dial, and new pointers. I think I paid a little less than $300, but they work great, and you can't tell them from a new one. I think it is a better alternative to the Chinese Falcon units.

Give 'em a try if you want a analog gauge.
 
GT-50 Info

To resolve any questions about the GT-50 G-Meter. It shows a CONTINUOUS G readout. Thanks, Chuck (Co-Owner, Flight Data Systems)
 
grantcarruthers said:
But mostly I'm concerned with teaching my butt what a 3-4 G pull up feels like and once my butt is calibrated I doubt I'll use it often.

Again, thoughts re: above??
Click to expand...


My thought is you will over G your airplane some day.

Seat of the pants G force perception varies drastically with:

- mood (mellow, all worked up)
- blood pressure (high, low)
- sleep (how much did you get)
- nutrition (when did you last eat)
- recent or lack of recent high G flying
- time of day (how long you have been alert)
- cold/flu (not at 100%)
- drugs, herbals, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine

There are more. Your attempt to teach your butt is akin to using a piece of elastic for a tape measure.
 
From flying numerous Mil types with a proper analogue 'g' meter, and then one with digital... the analogue is far better to "fly to"...

Our RV-8 has a digital 'g' on the Dynon right in front of me, and an analogue low LHS which the rear seater can see... I've never looked at the Dynon one :rolleyes:

We just bought the Van's 2.25" one and seems to work fine

I can only echo post above about pulling 'g' reliably by "feel" - it's a non-starter, and I trust no aerobatics instructor is teaching it :( On any pull wanting 3+g it must be in your scan, especially on the "pull out" if trying to achieve a base height
 
RE: over g'ing seat of the pants

Thanks for the input!! I'm kind of surprised but thats why these forums are so valuable (must remember to donate soon!!).

I'm surprised you'd say that (educated) seat of the pants for casual aerobatics is not accurate enough from a safety stand point re: over-g'ing. I'd expect that 3 and 6 g's feel really different and that if you taught your butt 3 g's by training with a g-meter that you wouldn't later accidently go past 6!!!!

I will certainly get a g-meter before loops for the 3 g pull up and pull outs.
 
grantcarruthers said:
...I'm surprised you'd say that (educated) seat of the pants for casual aerobatics is not accurate enough from a safety stand point re: over-g'ing. I'd expect that 3 and 6 g's feel really different and that if you taught your butt 3 g's by training with a g-meter that you wouldn't later accidently go past 6!!!!...
Click to expand...
I think it is pretty hard to tell; anything over about 3 feels like quite a bit of g to me, but another factor is that you learn how much stick force is needed for a certain g and the force varies greatly with loading. It can throw you off.
 
GT-50 g-meter

grantcarruthers said:
Anyone have experience with the GT-50? The Aircraft Spruce add leads me to believe the readout is only for min/max and not a continuous reading as one would want during aerobatics?
Click to expand...

The display is continuously updated and is much easier to read than an analog meter.

Rich
 
I think it is pretty hard to tell; anything over about 3 feels like quite a bit of g to me,
Click to expand...
If you mucked up an aerobatic manoeuvre, then maybe did not take the correct recovery action straight away (or worse, started with the wrong action e.g. "pulling through") you may well see a lot of "green" (fields) rather closely out of the window :eek:

You will now have lots of knots, adrenalin and as a consequence, strength and 'g' tolerance. You will easily pull the wings off an RV without knowing it :( You need an easily visible / quickly interpretable 'g' meter with a Max recording system. You will not be worried about a "Chinese" 'g' meter about 0.5g in error - you just need to know if you are pulling 3g or 7g ;)

If that sounds unlikely, I am "aware of" (and some experience of sitting with) in the last few months RV and Yak owners exceeding VNE by 20K, trying to pull through from <3000' inverted at high speed, scaring themselves **** with only ground visible out of the window and trying to exceed Max 'g' limits. Most people who overstress an aircraft are amazed that at that point they pulled that much 'g'... I have many hours doing aeros / combat / evasion / general fun in various types, and still aim to do each pull up and pull out with the 'g' meter in my scan.... I can never judge it anywhere near accurately enough :(

Apart from the obvious of getting decent instruction, please include an easy to see/read 'g' meter and use it :rolleyes:
 
I replaced my old surplus g-meter over a year ago with a GT50 and am quite satisfied with it. You can select continous g reading as well as max and min and volts timers etc.
I normally have it displaying volts or flight time unless I'm doing acro.
Chuck Ross RV4
 
tonyjohnson said:
Does anyone have any feedback on how well the G meters included with the GRT EFIS works?
Click to expand...

I have a GRT EFIS as well as the Flight Data Systems digital "G" meter. The GRT display is quite small and does not record maximum "G". The FDS display is large and bright and it displays maximum and minimum "G". I like it!
 
I used the old pointer meter in the RV6, but in the panels we build most of the time we've pretty much gone to the GT-50 for those who want a standalone Gmeter. We really like them, they work well and the company is nice to deal with.

Cheers,
Stein
 
grantcarruthers said:
Anyone have experience with the GT-50? The Aircraft Spruce add leads me to believe the readout is only for min/max and not a continuous reading as one would want during aerobatics? I can't believe this is true but the add says nothing about a continuous readout??
Click to expand...


I've had one for quite awhile and have nothing but good to say about it. It is not only a g-meter but a clock, timer, voltmeter and the new ones have OAT. It does read current g and records the min and max. Way lighter than a mechanical g meter plus you get all the other stuff. I'd order one today. Unless you want the OAT option. I think that will be out in Jan. Good luck and Merry Christmas.
 
GT-50 G-METER / CLOCK / VOLTMETER
The GT-50 is a Five Function Acclerometer/Clock/Voltmeter
for Experimental Aircraft
G-Meter Mode

G-Meter: +/- 9 G’s
Records Max/Min
Flight Timer: Automatically
Records Flight Time

Clock Mode
Clock: 12 or 24 Hour Format
Quartz Crystal
Timer/Stopwatch
Voltmeter

Features

* Best G-Meter Value Available
* Large Extreme Operating Temperature Display
* Soft Orange Backlight
* Automatic Backlight Brightness
* Fits 2-1/4" Panel Cutout
* Weighs only 2.5 oz.

Description Part No. Price Buy
FLIGHT DATA G-METER GT-50 12V 10-01793 $154.00
FLIGHT DATA G-METER GT-50 28V 10-03153 $185.00

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/gt50_2.php
 
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grantcarruthers said:
Thanks for the input!! I'm kind of surprised but thats why these forums are so valuable (must remember to donate soon!!).

I'm surprised you'd say that (educated) seat of the pants for casual aerobatics is not accurate enough from a safety stand point re: over-g'ing. I'd expect that 3 and 6 g's feel really different and that if you taught your butt 3 g's by training with a g-meter that you wouldn't later accidently go past 6!!!!

I will certainly get a g-meter before loops for the 3 g pull up and pull outs.
Click to expand...


I watch the g's build in a smooth pull and it really helps to peg it just right for round loops.
As for the feel of 3 or 6 they are different, but I pulled 5 1/2 the other day and didn't know it until I looked at the G-meter. Never really felt different but I was yanking and banking with an aft CG. Instantaneous G will sneak up on you also.
Sometimes old is good..
 
Does the GT-50 have an internal watch type battery to keep track of the time or does it rely on the aircraft electrical system to always supply it with voltage?
 
lucky said:
Does the GT-50 have an internal watch type battery to keep track of the time or does it rely on the aircraft electrical system to always supply it with voltage?
Click to expand...

It does have a connection to the hot battery bus to keep the clock running. It is very low current draw.
 
no internal battery

lucky said:
Does the GT-50 have an internal watch type battery to keep track of the time or does it rely on the aircraft electrical system to always supply it with voltage?
Click to expand...

It hooks directly to the aircraft battery to maintain the clock. I ran mine through a 1 amp breaker (same for the Dynon internal clock). Battery draw is almost nothing when plane is off since.

I like the large numbers.
 
GT-50 Info

grantcarruthers said:
Anyone have experience with the GT-50? The Aircraft Spruce add leads me to believe the readout is only for min/max and not a continuous reading as one would want during aerobatics? I can't believe this is true but the add says nothing about a continuous readout??
Click to expand...

The GT-50 has a continuous readout of G's. It also saves Max and Min G's. Clock, Voltmeter, Timer are a bonus. New GT-50's also have an optional OAT probe.

Charles Newman
Flight Data Systems
831-325-3131
 
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