M

michael.1

I'm New Here
Hi There,

Can anyone recommend a person or shop to build me a RV 8 or 7 ??
I live overseas - England - and cannot spare the time so am very keen to get an Rv built for me.I have found it hard to locate a ready built 7/8 which says a great deal about their desirability so any leads would be most welcome.

Mike
 
Michael,

Before embarking on this route have you thought through and checked how, exactly, you are going to satisfy the LAA and get a permit to fly? You can't just wheel an inspector in to look at a brand new fully-built aircraft shipped in from elsewhere without causing yourself a major problem.

Also if the aircraft is built in another country - eg the US - presumably it will initially have to be N-registered by the builder, flown for a bit at least, then you will have to ship it, get it inspected, possibly get mods done to suit the whimsical tastes of the LAA if it is not exactly as per plans.

I don't know how the FAA and EAA etc work, but is there not a 50% rule, requirement to fly before being sold on etc - the LAA has the power to refuse to issue a permit if the 50% rule and building for oneself are in doubt.

If you really do not have the time or inclination to build for yourself you might be better off finding an existing, flying -7 or -8 in the US that is for sale, then sorting the shipping and inspection, rather than finding someone to build it from scratch and then having the shipping etc hassle.

While I sympathize somewhat with the time problem, its really not that difficult, nor does it take that much time - I just gave up television and the pub. A beneficial side-effect was that I lost weight, got fitter and learned a lot of manual skills and technical information. First rivet to first flight was 2.5 years and could easily have been less.

Chris

RV-8 QB G-GIGZ - 100 airborne hours.
Superior IO-360, Hartzell C/s, Dynon 180.
 
There are build centers...

...in South Africa and Russia who seem to turn out really fine airplanes.

Members of this forum can direct you to either,

Best,
 
Pierre,

Yes of course - there is also HPAI in the Czech Republic, who already have some RV-4 experience and who apparently do fantastic work.

But that's not really the difficulty for Mike. He needs to get a Permit to Fly from the Light Aircraft Association in the UK. I don't see a way around that requirement in order to fly the aircraft and not just have a pile of aluminum. The aircraft will need to be inspected and approved. The inspector will want to see the workshop even before work starts, plus inspect at 16 (IIRC) intervals throughout the build -I think the US has a similar system, certainly WRT the 50% requirement?

So wherever the plane gets built, Mike has to be able to convince an inspector and the LAA that the aircraft has been 50% completed by himself (with or without help), or that he has bought a complete aircraft already legitimately built and flown by someone else for their own use.

As a possible alternative, maybe he could get someone experienced/skilled eg an ex-Air Force airframe fitter, to help and pay for that person's time. But there will need to be a workshop and evidence of construction.

Bottom line is I can't see a way to present an LAA inspector with a brand-new unflown aircraft and not have gone through the building process and had it all documented along the way. If there is a way I'd love to hear about it! I'm sure other UK builders - where are you, Steve, Andy - will be along shortly!

Chris
 
Loyd Remus in Peyton, Colorado. He does good work and gets them done rather quickly. His telephone number is 719-339-5729 or you can email him at [email protected]. Very nice fellow too.
 
I agree

Hi Chris,
Yep, I read it and thought exactly the same as you.

Without several people telling untruths, I don't see how the sought arrangement could meet check no. 2 of the LAA process documented in TL1.06 Imported Homebuilt Aircraft....

"2. Checking that the machine is genuinely amateur built (ie more than 51% built by the amateur builder)"​




I also agree, much simpler to go find an existing a/c for sale in the US or anywhere else for that matter that was genuinely and legitimately built by an amateur builder.​

Just not worth the risk of not getting a Permit.​

 
Gray

Another vote for Rick Gray. I've seen his work and well it speaks for itself.
I believe he has done projects for folks in England before, not completely sure.
Anyway, I would think you couldn't go wrong with him.
 
What amazes me here....

....is the fact that no one has mentioned the 51 % rule and its intentions.

Yet, several 'build-for-pay' guys have been revealed in the U.S!

I hope the Feds don't read much of this forum,

Regards,
 
RV Central

Jay Pratt at RV Central in Fort Worth would be my choice. He advertizes on this site so you should be able to locate him easily.

Pat
 
pierre smith said:
....is the fact that no one has mentioned the 51 % rule and its intentions.

Yet, several 'build-for-pay' guys have been revealed in the U.S!

I hope the Feds don't read much of this forum,

Regards,
Click to expand...

Generally, the first response to a post asking for someone to build an RV for them for pay is a reminder about the 51% rule and building for "education and recreation". But seeing as how the fellow asking (in this case) isn't in the USA, I was interested to hear if the same sort of rules apply in Britain Pierre - and then someone posted that just a couple of notes above yours. Essentially the same rules, but I expect the British authorities are more likely to cross all the "t's" and dot all the "i's" then we are here in the US.

I know that we DO have Feds reading the forums BTW....:eek:
 
Given "Mike" chooses to remain anonymous, seems to be trying to break the law, and given the forum rules:
Special Note: Having your real name in your profile/signature goes a long way with the moderators. If you choose to be anonymous online, you almost certainly be given no slack.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure we should act as accessories to the crime :confused:

Remember the FAA has got tired of those abusing the rules, and I know the LAA have their concerns over here - that said, until the first one is bought and paid for and the LAA refuse it a Permit, it is no wonder why :eek:

Andy
 
Why...

<moderators please let me know if this post exhibits too much thread drift>

...are there folks indicating this is illegal? Assuming Michael doesn't care about the repairman's certificate (or whatever the British equivalent is), and also assuming the builder isn't a factory*, I don't see the problem. Many (most?) amateur built aircraft have portions of the plane (certainly components) completed by professionals. Engine building and panel building are two big examples. Then there are the builder's assist programs...two weeks to taxi for instance. Not to mention all the miscellaneous machining, welding, fabricating, painting, wiring, upholstery, plumbing, calibration, etc tasks that some builders have done.

As long as the builder is an amateur, it shouldn't matter who that amateur is. If the hired hand still has fun or gains some education in the process, the whole process seems to comply entirely with both the letter and spirit of the law for amateur built aircraft (both the >50% rule and the education and recreation clause).**

*I'm not sure on the regulations here, but I've heard that a builder assist program would be considered professional if selling more than 6 planes per year. I bet Gill will know more.

**All this IMHO, of course.
 
Hi Mike,
No, don't think your question is thread drift

mcencula said:
As long as the builder is an amateur...
Click to expand...

Here's my (UK) view. If the plane is built 'to order in return for payment' then it precludes the plane from being regarded as amateur built. That's pretty much the antithesis of the definition of 'amateur'.

Nobodies going to get arrested if someone pays somone else to rivet bits of metal together for them. The question is whether it would be legal to subsequently fly those bits of metal in the skies in the UK. To fly legally in the UK those bits of metal need to be granted a Permit to Fly, which requires that, among other things, the build be deemed as genuinely amateur by the UK LAA.

Betcha his pile-o-scrap will be bigger than your pile-o-scrap if he doesn't get a Permit to Fly. :D
 
I just don't see how this practice is acceptable!

As I read the original question it was for someone to build the aircraft, not about a builder assist program.

What follows is my view, given the rules we have to follow in the UK. There is a 51% rule and IIRC also the inspector has to be satisfied that the aircraft has been built for the use of the builder(s).

Imagine the scenario: A brand new, freshly painted, unflown RV8 emerges from a container and assembled at an airfield "somewhere in southern England". Before it can fly it will need a permit to test and will need to complete the 5 hours (or longer, as required) test programme etc etc as per the (British) LAA. In order to get a permit to test an inspector has to inspect and sign off.

But even before that the build has to be registered and a build book issued, then the various inspections have to be completed; workshop, empennage before being closed up, etc etc. Is it likely that an inspector, when presented with the new aircraft, will agree to sign all the inspections not having been able to do ANY of them except the last one? I've dealt with two inspectors over the last 3-4 years and I would be stunned if either of them did anything except say (a) NO WAY and (b) inform the LAA about the existence of an aircraft built in obvious dereliction of the rules.

It's not pushing at the 51% rule, it's ignoring it completely - it's no way like getting your panel cut or getting some welding done or all the other minor things that we all need some help with. Result - an expensive and large pile of scrap.

I agree with Andy that we shouldn't be condoning the suggested practice and personally I question the notion that one can have time to fly but not enough time over say 2-3 years to build.

Don't want to offend site rules so enuff sed I think!!:eek::eek::eek:

Chris
 
Lots of planes COULD be for sale. How about putting a want ad in the classified section listing what you are looking for.

Like this> WTB: RV-7 or 8 with these requirements...bla bla bla... must have over 40hrs TT....unpainted preferred. all considered, send me info.

You get the plane you want, paint it when it gets to UK.
 
hydroguy2 said:
Lots of planes COULD be for sale. How about putting a want ad in the classified section listing what you are looking for.

Like this> WTB: RV-7 or 8 with these requirements...bla bla bla... must have over 40hrs TT....unpainted preferred. all considered, send me info.

You get the plane you want, paint it when it gets to UK.
Click to expand...

Thanks much! That is about what I was thinking as well.
 
I've seen a couple of nice R8's for sale the last month, so am surprised you haven't been able to find any.
 
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