[fstringham7a]

RE: Flight Review.....

This AM I had my biannual flight review. It was the first time

I sat left seat in a real long time. Boy did it show!!!!!! Landings were less than stellar!!!

But what was so special about this otherwise oh hum 2 year activity was the person giving me the work out.



Next week Cliff Chaney will be 92 years young. He has a first class medical, ATP rated (he is a retired United Captain and flew just about every plane in the commercial fleet), CFIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII, you name it to carry on has a first rate flight instructor and probably has close to a bizillion hours of flight time. And oh boy is he smooth flying the plane. He taught me a ton of stuff in our two hour flight. I will be doing some more work with him to prepare for my first go at my 7A.

Here is a picture of the two of us at the conclusion of the ground information part of the biannual interagation.



First flight should be next week!!!!

Stay Tuned

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... Airworthy Cert in hand wating on insurance!!!!

 

[rvbuilder2002]

Glad to see you were able to get current and acquire some valuable training from someone with lots of experience.

Excuse me for being so direct but I can't help but ask...since it sounds like you have not been current for PIC in quite a while...what are you planning for RV familiarization training? An RV-7A is not difficult to fly, but it is a long ways from being a C-172

 

[fstringham7a]

REifferences

Glad to see you were able to get current and acquire some valuable training from someone with lots of experience.

Excuse me for being so direct but I can't help but ask...since it sounds like you have not been current for PIC in quite a while...what are you planning for RV familiarization training? An RV-7A is not difficult to fly, but it is a long ways from being a C-172

Scott

Great ????

I will be doing the typical transition by getting instruction from those in the know and with the capability to teach me what I need to know and DO....

Now for my question: I have heard and read from a bunch of good folks with skills in many different planes and especially time in the RV family of airplanes. Each in one way or the other have said, "An RV-7A is not difficult to fly, but .......different"......So whats the difference???

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A...

 

[L.Adamson]

Scott

Now for my question: I have heard and read from a bunch of good folks with skills in many different planes and especially time in the RV family of airplanes. Each in one way or the other have said, "An RV-7A is not difficult to fly, but .......different"......So whats the difference???

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A...

Items I can think of...

If you have a fixed pitch prop, you must begin slowing down much farther out, than a 172. Otherwise, you'll be far down the runway before getting it to settle.

If you have a constant speed, then of course, you'll need to know how to use it. The constant speed has a lot of braking effect. This means you need to watch airspeed closely; because it diminishes so fast, that the plane will drop out from underneath you. I know that 6's & 9's will do it; and I'll assume the same for the 7. Just be close to the runway when airspeed drops. Or add some throttle.

Make sure you stay on top of the right rudder. It will be more than a 172. My 6A is a lot more (short tail & no offset) and even get's quite "torqued" on that last 1/3 of throttle (C/S prop).

Naturally, you'll be a pattern height before the end of the runway! If flying the pattern, just be thinking of flap speeds for landing, way ahead of time.

I'll assume that you're use to the differential braking. Not that difficult, but make sure your foot is off the brake on the takeoff roll.

Watch that nosewheel. On my first landing, I let nosewheel down to fast, and got the "shimmy". These day's I taxi with the stick back. As I make the roll down the runway, I add forward pressure as airspeed builds, to maintain a light nosewheel attitude.

As a general rule, my patterns are far tighter than typical 172's, especially 172's with students and 747 patterns. If the airport is crowded, you really have to watch it, as the RV is flying a lot faster before you know it. I'll be thinking in terms of an RV, and expect a 172 to be on final, when it's actually just mid-field on the downwind. They appear as "turtles"!

And that brings up another point. If a 172 or Archer takes off ahead of you, then give yourself some good leeway. Otherwise, you'll be eating their tail before you know it!

L.Adamson --- RV6A

 

[Brantel]

"An RV-7A is not difficult to fly, but .......different"......So whats the difference???

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A...

In no particular order........

Decent rate
Speed
Decent rate
The look over the nose in level flight
Deceleration rate
Castoring nose wheel
Decent rate
Very responsive but not twichy
Decent rate
Incredible climb rate
Decent rate
Much higher power to weight ratio

As you can tell, the thing that hit me the hardest as being very different from they typical spam can is the decent rate. Pull the power back and these things will come out of the sky in a hurry!

Second is the fact that you fly these things with your fingertips.

 

[L.Adamson]

I added more, but it got lost in a glitch...

If taking off behind a typical 172 or Archer; then give yourself room. Otherwise, you'll be on their tail before you know it. If worse goes to worse in crowded patterns, then leave it for a while. It will take some adjusting to get use to pattern speeds with slower airplanes.

L.Adamson --- RV6A

 

[shamer]

First flight currency

If you're rusty enough to have difficulty in a 172, I would question whether a weeks worth of flying is sufficient to prepare you to fly your RV. You have probably spent years building your plane so don't rush it now if you're not ready. The first flight is no time to be learning the feel of your RV and coping with something going wrong. Get some RV transition training and consider letting an experienced RV pilot fly it a few times.

Be safe and good luck. You're going to love your RV whether your first flight is next week or a few months from now.

 

[newtech]

Scott

Great ????

I will be doing the typical transition by getting instruction from those in the know and with the capability to teach me what I need to know and DO....

Now for my question: I have heard and read from a bunch of good folks with skills in many different planes and especially time in the RV family of airplanes. Each in one way or the other have said, "An RV-7A is not difficult to fly, but .......different"......So whats the difference???

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A...

I just flew my RV-7A for the first time last week. Most of my 120 hours was in Cessna's but the most important hours were the five I spent with Pierre Smith in his RV-6A. Not having flown for the eight years I spent building my plane I have no doubts that without the transition training I would have balled up by plane in the trees that lined the left side of our grass strip. I see where you say you will be "doing the typical transition by getting instruction from those in the know " but what I don't see is TRAINING IN A NOSE WHEEL RV. Please do your self a big favor and get some time in a nose wheel RV. My insurance company, AIG, required five hours in a RV-6A or RV-7A with a CFI. After the five hours with Pierre my first flight was a non event.

 

[hydroguy2]

Good job, Frank. I've got some great info from some of the ol' airport bums around here. Stuff that's just not taught but has to be experienced.

 

[rvmills]

Excuse me for being so direct but I can't help but ask...since it sounds like you have not been current for PIC in quite a while...what are you planning for RV familiarization training?

I see where you say you will be "doing the typical transition by getting instruction from those in the know " but what I don't see is TRAINING IN A NOSE WHEEL RV.

Frank,

I had the same thoughts as the above two gents, who are asking good questions and making very solid recommendations.

Please don't take it as questioning your abilities, you're probably a great stick. But it almost sounds as though your transition training plan may be "hangar flying" with those "in the know", and reading about differences between what you have flown and your RV-7. If I'm reading that wrong, please accept my humble apologies.

However, after all the recent discussions in the Safety section of the forum, I think what you are seeing is some of us reaching out to you, and "speaking up" in order to "watch your six" and be a good wingman and safety advocate.

This may sound overly preachy, but what the heck...A first flight "in type" and a first test flight in the new machine that you've poured your life into for so long seems to me like a very risky combination.

I may be conservative, but in my case (in which I bought a flying RV), with 30+ years and 5 digits in the logbook (J-3's to F-teens to Boeings), as a humble RV newbie, I felt very strongly about proper training and preparation; so I did transition training with Jan Bussell, and did several flights with my seller (a friend who mentored...or was that tor-mentored me throughout) before I soloed my new machine. I'm glad I did...and sure do concur with Brian too...it comes down like a turd off a tall moose at idle! (Caveat: I have a clipped-wing Super Six). The 9A-s I've since flown float a bit, but Jan's straight Six came down pretty well too. No experience in a 7 to compare it to.

Just a data point, and please take it in the spirit of camraderie and safety that it's intended.

Good luck, be safe, and have fun!

Cheers,
Bob

 

[fstringham7a]

RE:Thanks..but

Thanks for the great advice and yes I will have the first hour plus on the plane flown by an RV7A, Delta retired , A6 off a carrier deck pilot do the honors.

What the point of my thread was, was to honor a 92 year old fellow that is still flying, giving instruction, and just being a great ambassador of our flying passion. My mistake was to be a bit self deprecating of my skills. He signed me off as a safe pilot.....in a 172....BUT...I do intend on getting the necessary training to sharpen and increase my skills necessay to fly the 7A.

For the past 4 years ten months as I built my 7A I knew I would need the transition training to be safe, secure, and sound in my intial flights in the plane I built.

Fast/Slick/Nimble/Sensitive/Easy to Fly (once trained PROPERLY)/comfortable
are just a few of the things I can say about the 6 hours plus I have flown in an RV7A.

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... last call on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[frankh]

Not a difficult airplane

But that means its not overly forgiving either like the 172 is.

Its a high performance airplane without a doubt. It will leave you breathless the first time you drop the hammer and trim for a 90kt climb..The angle is ridiculous!

Thos airplane thrills me evry time I fly it..and thats without doing acro!..Its fast and it will get ahead of your brain if your not on the ball.

I think however as long as you have a good transition training you'll be fine.

One hot topic for me..Treat that nose gear like its made of glass..literally. I saw guys taxiing across rough ground at Arlington last year and it made my eyes water!

That means full back on the stick at TO/landing and all taxiing...If the gound is rough grass/holes (like it was at AWO) then get out and pull the thing by hand if you have to.

Remember with your new engine you'll be flying at high power settings during break in...Which means you have to think twice as fast.. be accurate on controlling approach speeds..No stall warning remember..

Be safe, I know you won't short change yourself on the training.

Frank1

 

[rvmills]

Cool!

Good stuff Frank! Better to say something and get a confident "I got it" (or "got it covered"), than to sit silent and wonder, right?!

Meant to also say that the flight with Cliff was probably a hoot too. Guys like that have "forgotten more than I'll ever know", and are so much fun to fly with!

Best of luck with the new RV!!

Cheers,
Bob

Thanks for the great advice and yes I will have the first hour plus on the plane flown by an RV7A, Delta retired , A6 off a carrier deck pilot do the honors.

What the point of my thread was, was to honor a 92 year old fellow that is still flying, giving instruction, and just being a great ambassador of our flying passion. My mistake was to be a bit self deprecating of my skills. He signed me off as a safe pilot.....in a 172....BUT...I do intend on getting the necessary training to sharpen and increase my skills necessay to fly the 7A.

For the past 4 years ten months as I built my 7A I knew I would need the transition training to be safe, secure, and sound in my intial flights in the plane I built.

Fast/Slick/Nimble/Sensitive/Easy to Fly (once trained PROPERLY)/comfortable
are just a few of the things I can say about the 6 hours plus I have flown in an RV7A.

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... last call on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rv8ch]

longevity

Frank,

Thanks for the story about Cliff. Did you ask him his secret to longevity?

I have a feeling I know what it is, just based on my own very informal "research" into this, and always happy to add another data point.

Thanks,
Mickey

 

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I don't think anyone's pointed this out yet but if I can look THAT good at 62 (7 years from now) that this gent looks like at 92...well......... I'll be pleased as heck.

A wonderful post!

 

[Bill Wightman]

Cliff is a living legend

Next week Cliff Chaney will be 92 years young. He has a first class medical, ATP rated (he is a retired United Captain and flew just about every plane in the commercial fleet)

WOW! What a guy!

I'd like to know where he spent most of his time at UAL, what fleet did he start and end with?

And please say "HOWDY!" from a current Chicago B777 crew dog, and hope to see him in the back some time!

Cliff is living proof there is life after 10,000 crew meals

 

[L.Adamson]

Thanks for the great advice and yes I will have the first hour plus on the plane flown by an RV7A, Delta retired , A6 off a carrier deck pilot do the honors.

My RV6A spent so many years (12) in my garage.............that it became family.

I wanted to fly the 6A's first flight myself; and after 12 years why push it!

Four years previously, I had flown 1/2 of 40 hours in a 9A as PIC (the other 20 went to the owner). And all was fine. But then I picked up some rust during those last four years, and the 9A owner say's I'm no longer "walking & chewing gum at the same time"; as we're dealing with air traffic control in Class B, and flying the plane too. He was correct; but luckily, he's a great mentor!

Therefor, at his pushing, we put approximately another 20 hours on his plane; and I picked up a few more current hours on a 6A doing slow flight, stalls, etc. I also had some previous 6A hours years before. We did this in the two month period between my plane's inspection and first flight. In the meantime, I used his 9A for the BFR, in which everything went just great including dealing with Class B.

As daylight appeared on the Sunday morning of my anticipated first flight, my anxiety levels were up. Although, during the build period, I had flown with numerous friends and acquaintances, took an aerobatic course in a Pitt's, a glider, and flew BFR's with flight instructors..............I hadn't flown alone as PIC without some other pilot aboard in 14 years. But, I was well aquainted with the handling qualities of the RV, and very current with the "feel and responses" of it all.

I did "one" high speed taxi, to make sure the plane tracked straight down the runway. I had planned up to three; but just one prooved that everything was correct. My airport is also under Class B and surrounded by sub-divisions; so I didn't plan on a bunch of circles and doing stall test's. I was well aware of stall speeds from so many other RV's that I'm familiar with.

After the taxi test, I taxied back, and took off down the runway. The right pedal pressure required was just as I expected, and the climb out was smooth. I flew two revolutions around the airport just under Class B altitude and landed. As previously mentioned, I let the nose wheel down a bit to soon, and got some shimmy. Other than that, all went perfectly.

Two hours later, after checking for any leaks, etc, and resetting the nose wheel torque.............. I flew a 96 mile (each way) flight to another airport which was in my phase 1 flight area. This is over very open desert, freeway, and dirt roads; which is actually a better option than hovering around my subdivision surrounded airport. I was followed by my friends 9A as a chase plane.

All went perfect on this flight too. In fact, I've now put 86 hours on this 6A in the last 10 months, including some excellent cross country trips to the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Monument Valley areas, as well as St. George. Everything has still been working as expected. I'm now doing it's conditional inspection.

The point is.................. you can either have someone else do the first flight, or just take more time, in someone elses RV to get some transition training; as it is certainly different than a Cessna 172 , but not all that difficult, once you know what to expect.

In fact, my 6A is very much like the 9A. Except it lands 10 mph faster, and is more responsive on the controls, and doesn't float like a 9 can. Since I had previous Pitt's time, some Marchetti SF260, and a lot of years of R/C with short control sticks; over controlling on the stick has never been a factor. But it is for some, who are not use to it. That, and the fact that the RV is just plain faster, is where people get in trouble.

L.Adamson --- RV6A (flying)

 

[fstringham7a]

RE: RC has a transition trainer...good idea??????

My RV6A spent so many years (12) in my garage.............that it became family.


In fact, my 6A is very much like the 9A. Except it lands 10 mph faster, and is more responsive on the controls, and doesn't float like a 9 can. Since I had previous Pitt's time, some Marchetti SF260, and a lot of years of R/C with short control sticks; over controlling on the stick has never been a factor. But it is for some, who are not use to it. That, and the fact that the RV is just plain faster, is where people get in trouble.

L.Adamson --- RV6A (flying)

Hi Larry

Do you think a little RC time might prepare me for the 7A........Probably Not I'm thinking!!!!!

Thanks for the info. I really have enjoyed your comments on all issues...building and flying.

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A...

 

[newtech]

Now for my question: I have heard and read from a bunch of good folks with skills in many different planes and especially time in the RV family of airplanes. Each in one way or the other have said, "An RV-7A is not difficult to fly, but .......different"......So whats the difference???

Since I only have 2.1 hours on my RV-7A I don't have a very large experience base to draw from. Numerous people I talked to before my first flight, and asked the very same questions you did here, cautioned me about the instinct to push forward on the stick when you are slightly hot and the runway is passing by under you. Well my first landing back on my home 2000' grass strip with obstructions at both ends resulted in a go around on the first attempt. The second one probably should have also been a go around since my touch down point was a lot farther down the runway than I would have liked. My first instinct was to push forward on the stick to plant her more firmly for better braking. I didn't and there was more than enough runway remaining for a safe stop but I now have a new UNBREAKABLE rule. If you ever have an instinct to push forward on anything during a landing make sure it is the throttle. Better to log an extra touch and go than bend the airplane.

If we can all learn from those that have gone before this is going to be a lot of fun. Congratulations and I wish you as much fun as I am having.

 

[allbee]

In no particular order........

Decent rate
Speed
Decent rate
The look over the nose in level flight
Deceleration rate
Castoring nose wheel
Decent rate
Very responsive but not twichy
Decent rate
Incredible climb rate
Decent rate
Much higher power to weight ratio

As you can tell, the thing that hit me the hardest as being very different from they typical spam can is the decent rate. Pull the power back and these things will come out of the sky in a hurry!

Second is the fact that you fly these things with your fingertips.

Brian,

You forgot one very important one, thay are more fuuuunn to fly.

steve