J

JDRhodes

Well Known Member
Un-necessary radio use drives me knuts!:mad: At our uncontrolled field, it seems that instructors are teaching students to make radio calls and traffic advisories while taxiing on the ramp. "So and so traffic, N1234 taxiing to runway 1." I also frequently hear, "So and so traffic, Cessna N1234 is 7 mile s west of the airport at 4500 feet maneuvering." Or, So and so traffic, Cessna 1234 is 10 miles to the northwest at 6500 feet transitioning to the southeast." And the increasingly popular, "... any traffic in the area, please advise!" What does this mean? And why ask it? It doesn't give you any useful info that listening for a few minutes wouldn't give you.

Come on! Traffic advisories in the pattern for safety's sake - fine. If you are going to transition THROUGH the pattern and want to make a call to let everyone know that you are there - fine.

I don't need to hear on the radio that you are on the taxiway - I can see you there, even in IFR conditions. And I don't need to hear that you are flying through the neighborhood at a location and altitude that does not affect the airport traffic at all.

Come on CFI's - teach these new pilots not only how to talk on the radio, but why we do it and when it is and is not necessary.
 
Hmm... I don't mind the taxi and maneuvering reports. The taxi report lets me know that someone is going to be taking off soon. I also like to hear about traffic in the general vicinity so I can make decision which way to fly out or in to avoid them, or so that I can be watching for them.

"Any traffic please advise", you can flush that down the toilet.

Hans
 
While I agree with the "Any Traffic Please Advise" comment, the others are just fine. That one though is worthless and also gives the PIC a false sense of security.

You better not take a checkride with a certain examiner from KVJI....Seems you can't talk enough on the radio at an uncontrolled field for him to be happy.

Suppose some super dupper student just announced that he was taxiing for takeoff on runway 5 and everyone else in the pattern is using 23, would be good to know this before he took off againts the flow of traffic no?
 
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I'm with Brian. Advising that traffic is moving on a taxi way is a good indication of their position and intentions, not only for traffic on the ground but traffic in the pattern or close to the airport. Maneuvering close to the pattern is also appropriate because someone taking off may be heading in the direction.

Why does this bother you so much?
 
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nucleus said:
. The taxi report lets me know that someone is going to be taking off soon.
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It might be 5 - 10 or more minutes between when someone leaves the parking spot before they take off and become any factor to any airborne traffic. Wouldn't "N1234 departing RWY 1 turning westbound" before you apply TO power be more useful and save a little radio chatter on a crowded frequency?
 
JDRhodes said:
It might be 5 - 10 or more minutes between when someone leaves the parking spot before they take off and become any factor to any airborne traffic. Wouldn't "N1234 departing RWY 1 turning westbound" before you apply TO power be more useful and save a little radio chatter on a crowded frequency?
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Might be about 10 seconds if someone decided to make a taxiway departure or they were really close to the departure end of the runway when they made the call. Expecially if they decide not to do a run-up.

I see it all the time so I know people do these things.

Also in an RV, you can be off and at manuvering altitude in a hurry! It is nice to know if someone is doing stalls a few miles to the ? direction so you don't run over them as they have their nose in the air.
 
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nucleus said:
..."Any traffic please advise", you can flush that down the toilet.

Hans
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From Brad's AIM reference "Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

It seems like the worst ones for doing this are the commuter airliners. It makes me think that some of the big training places are the ones that got that horrible practice going.
 
I think the big problem is using that phrase solely instead of in conjunction with a proper position and intentions report.
 
I don't mind any of these as long as: they are short, not long winded and slow, get to the point. They are precise, NOT; I'm over such and such Barn type of thing.

This is my point, if somebody says there taxiing to 21 for take off, great I can expect a take off sometime soon. If somebody is giving a point by point of taxi to the fuel pumps, they need to shut up. On the arrival from 10 miles, very useful, expecially from an RV. Let me give you why. I was coming into my home airport, during the time of 6am to 8pm we have a tower. I was flying in at 8:30 pm and the tower was closed. I called in 8 miles east for 21L. Not a problem, said it fast and got off. At 5 miles an RV8, somebody I know, flew 300ft right over the top of me, it was a holy XXXX. I tried to call to him, but he wasn't on the freq yet. All of the sudden he comes on and says he's 5 miles out from the east. I said that's great but I'm 5 miles out and you flew right over the top of me 2 miles back. After a bit of surprise with a turn back from the RV8 to see where I was, we got things in line and he landed and then I landed. On the ground he said he never saw me, but I saw him. Thing is, an RV flies very fast and can overtake somebody real fast, you need to give a heads up for ten miles out, period. I know we are talking cessna's here, but it's a good idea still.
 
My tale of radio use.

After a day of flying I went to my local coffee hang out and was casually chatting with friends about the day. Suddenly I had some twenty something twerp in my face about how I had no business telling him that I had no right to call him out about chit chatting on the radio and that if he wanted to have a conversation with a friend of his he would go ahead and do so. I was flabbergasted, not only had we not been talking about the use of radios but I had never said anything to anybody about their use of radios on that day. I informed him of this and also that if I had heard him chit chatting I would have said the same thing. To this his reply was “well you sound like the guy so mind your own F'n business” really that's what he said. I have to admit that occasionally I am drawn to violence but usually can contain myself pretty well. As was the case here I let it roll off my back, there were kids present after all and I do like being welcome in this particular coffee shop. I vowed to myself that if ever we met up in oh say the hanger area and he even looked at me sideways we would continue the discussion my way. I couldn't believe the audacity. To everything else when you're on the radio, make it short and make it clear.
 
RE:please advise

I enjoy, while I am building my RV7A, listening to the radio calls at my nearest uncontrolled airports (SGU and 1L8).

When you boil it all down, we want to have these communications be brief, to the point, and in a language that we have been trained to speak. These word pictures allow us to immediatly know the location, direction of flight, and intent of those in our immediate uncontrolled air space.

But, I too have a real problem with, "Saint george Traffic, Skywest Flight 3963or ... Cessna 709er..... or experimental RV N74BZ NW at 65 hundered on approach for landing 16...................ANY TRAFFIC IN THE AREA PLEASE ADVISE...............

I just want to push the talk bottom and say........ya this is 666 tango uniform somewhere out there without a radio and minimal instruments.............

SEE and BE SEEN ............... and realize that aircraft without radios are legal in uncontrolled airspace..............

It is a safety issue. The more info the better. But be brief, to the point, and use appropriate pilot speak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

Plus don't ya just love it when the traffic pattern at your airport is left traffic only and some xxx heavy decide to do right traffic.....I just know that sooner or later.... as the wrong way traffic is making their right down wind to base turn they will unfortunetly kiss the aircraft set up for left downwind off of the 45..................

Be safe out there ..................

Frank @ SGU and 1L8 ... RV7A .....last 993 details of 900 are FG
 
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Rivethead said:
Suddenly I had some twenty something twerp in my face ... To this his reply was ?well you sound like the guy so mind your own F'n business? really that's what he said. .
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n5lp said:
From Brad's AIM reference "Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."
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While I may agree it is used too much, try being hooked up with a controlled tower and they don't turn you loose to go to VFR until you are 5 miles from your uncontrolled airport. I'll use it then because I don't have the luxury of listening for 5 mins because I'll be on the ground pushing the plane in the hanger.
 
JDRhodes said:
Un-necessary radio use drives me knuts!:mad: At our uncontrolled field, it seems that instructors are teaching students to make radio calls and traffic advisories while taxiing on the ramp. "So and so traffic, N1234 taxiing to runway 1." I also frequently hear, "So and so traffic, Cessna N1234 is 7 mile s west of the airport at 4500 feet maneuvering." Or, So and so traffic, Cessna 1234 is 10 miles to the northwest at 6500 feet transitioning to the southeast." And the increasingly popular, "... any traffic in the area, please advise!" What does this mean? And why ask it? It doesn't give you any useful info that listening for a few minutes wouldn't give you.

Come on! Traffic advisories in the pattern for safety's sake - fine. If you are going to transition THROUGH the pattern and want to make a call to let everyone know that you are there - fine.

I don't need to hear on the radio that you are on the taxiway - I can see you there, even in IFR conditions. And I don't need to hear that you are flying through the neighborhood at a location and altitude that does not affect the airport traffic at all.

Come on CFI's - teach these new pilots not only how to talk on the radio, but why we do it and when it is and is not necessary.
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Presumably you fly out of VPC. ;-)

Agree 100% with taxi information being irrelevant, particularly if there is traffic already in the pattern.

I hear the "Transitioning at XXX feet" call frequently and don't think it has any use unless the person is blowing through (or within 1,000' of pattern altitude).

People MUST realize that a radio call is no substitute for looking out the windows. There are plenty of NORDO's out there as well as people with poorly functioning radios and the occasional lunkhead (me too, once in a while) who is on the wrong frequency.
 
Traffic in the area, please advise

Geico266 said:
While I may agree it is used too much, try being hooked up with a controlled tower and they don't turn you loose to go to VFR until you are 5 miles from your uncontrolled airport. I'll use it then because I don't have the luxury of listening for 5 mins because I'll be on the ground pushing the plane in the hanger.
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In my opinion they are a couple of things wrong with this phraseology that disqualify it from ever being used.

One problem is that it comes off as elitist. "Ok everyone, I am here now, you all tell ME where you are." Even used with please it is essentially ordering everyone to bow to your wishes.

Another problem is that if people actually obeyed the order there would just be a giant squeal on the frequency if there is more than one person around. I have actually had people do this at a fly-in where there were 10 airplanes around the pattern. Just imagine the pandemonium if people had all actually reported their positions at that moment in time.

I know the problem of being turned loose in close. One solution is to monitor on another radio ahead of time. If you can't do that just report your position when possible. If others are in the area they should recognize that you are new on the frequency and report right away if there seems to be a conflict. I don't ever see the advantage of everyone reporting to one aircraft what their position is, all at once.

Whenever I hear the phrase, I make it a point to not respond to it and encourage it. I just give my normal position reports. If there was a need to I would give it right away just because someone reported a position that may conflict with me.

Those are my reasons to not do it. I don't know what the FAA's reasons are but they very clearly state to never do it.
 
it wasn't me

either Rivethead, but I think I know that SN kid. You showed much more restraint than I think i would have. that kid would have got a pop knot on top his head, right then and there.
 
JDRhodes said:
Un-necessary radio use drives me knuts!:mad: popular, "... any traffic in the area, please advise!" What does this mean? And why ask it? It doesn't give you any useful info that listening for a few minutes wouldn't give you.

Come on! Traffic advisories in the pattern for safety's sake - fine. If you are going to transition THROUGH the pattern and want to make a call to let everyone know that you are there - fine.

I don't need to hear on the radio that you are on the taxiway - I can see you there, even in IFR conditions. And I don't need to hear that you are flying through the neighborhood at a location and altitude that does not affect the airport traffic at all.

Come on CFI's - teach these new pilots not only how to talk on the radio, but why we do it and when it is and is not necessary.
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Sounds mostly like good safety practices to me.....
 
"Traffic in the area please advise" is sooo unnecessary. Simply make your position report and supposedly only those in the area that may be a factor will respond saving lots of squeal.

I hear the regionals using this phrase constantly, I wonder if it is required by company policy????

I am only mildly irritated by the use of this phrase. The one that really gets me steamed is the 'left downwind" report when the idiot is on base or final. I think that's worse than no report at all. I am out there scanning downwind when the 'big fat liar' isn't there at all.
My pet peeve...thankyou I feel better.
 
Geico266 said:
While I may agree it is used too much, try being hooked up with a controlled tower and they don't turn you loose to go to VFR until you are 5 miles from your uncontrolled airport. I'll use it then because I don't have the luxury of listening for 5 mins because I'll be on the ground pushing the plane in the hanger.
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Instead of requesting position reports from "everyone", just give your position report. That's what the AIM recommends, and traffic that's close will either speak up or get out the way. Or not, in which case they either don't have a radio, or fly like they don't. :rolleyes:

Remember, uncontrolled airport = see and be seen. Trust no one! Actually, this holds true for class D as well. The FAR's state that D controllers only are legally responsible for separation on the ground. Given that, and the fact that some towers sequence traffic into the pattern based on nothing better than pilot position report / mark1 eyeball, conflicts can arise from multiple aircraft entering the pattern from multiple directions. I've seen this sort of mess first hand. :eek:
 
From the AIM:

One of the changes that has appeared in the 2007 AIM is in section 4-1-9(g).
Allow me to quote it for you:

"Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF . . . Pilots stating 'Traffic in the area please advise' is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."

Although they need to work on their grammar a little, their message is clear. The habit of using this call has become a big enough problem that the FAA felt it needed to address it.

John Clark ATP, CFI
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Big Iron at uncontrolled airport

I was reading this thread and agree with the minimum comm to communicate position and intentions. There was several references about "Regional Airlines" at these fields. I flew the B-727 for Delta and we flew into most of the airfields in Montana (Bozeman, Missoula, Kalispell), most of which had the tower closed at night and in the mornings when we were coming or going. We were not taught to use ..."please advise"... phrase. We just announced when we were 35 miles out then normal position reports as we entered the pattern. So there can be some big iron at some uncontrolled times, we fly B-757 into some places with tower closed during some hours.

With that said don't just announce but listen to what is said. This year flying into SnF (1st time) the guy ahead of us on the arrival turned downwind the wrong direction. This might have been excusable except that there were about 15 planes ahead of him that all turned the correct direction and the tower was making near continuous radio calls for "cleared to land Rwy 09L/R", how you can turn downwind for 27 is in this situation is beyond me. He ended up actually turning base before he heard the controllers 3rd call to break out and re-enter the arrival (all the way back to the lake).

Radio calls are fine but as others have said see and be seen, make sure when you do announce you are on the correct frequency. Another day while doing touch and go training, traffic takes off of runway 90 degrees to the one I was on, we never heard a word from this guy. Me and the guy flying with me double checked that we were on the correct channel and we were so the other guy either made no call or was making them on the wrong frequency.

Check Six! and remember Comm Brevity
 
We're all boneheads sometimes

This has happened to me a couple of times. While flying around the local area, burning gas, logging time, I keep the comm on CTAF. The freq is, of course, shared with several other uncontrolled fields and I can hear it all. Two nearby fields are particularly chatty. "Hey Carl, you goin' down to Lulu's tonight? Yeah I'll be there, when you comin'? I'll be around about...." you couldn't get a word in edgewise sometimes, so, I kill the volume and continue my leisurely flight, especially if I have a GIB. Upon returning back, I start announcing position and intentions, only to realize the volume is still down. At which point I first wonder if I have clean drawers in the car, then re-announce, apologize and ask for a repeat, then give myself extra time before entering the pattern.

New habit to prevent this is always checking AWOS before initiating communications near the field. It's usually already on the flip-flop, and if I can't hear it, it's a good reminder to check the volume.

FWIW, I cringe every time I hear the "Please advise" call. Heard it at a fly-in this past weekend. Radio been busy all morning, 60-70 planes on the ground, two in the pattern making regular calls. All of a sudden out of the blue, XYZ traffic, barnburner 345 7 miles out (no direction) inbound, traffic in area please advise." Fortunately a ground facilitator jumped on the freq in about a half a second and stated EVERYONE's reported position and intentions, along with the reminder that not everyone had radios, then requested position and detailed intentions of barnburner.

Other pet peeves are "uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" said all quiet, like they just like hearing their voice in the sidetone. Another is "and" at the beginning of an updated position announcement. "AND XYZ traffic Skyhawk 345 left base two one." Not sure why that bothers me so much, but it does.

Also, I like the taxi reports on the ground because it lets me know to lookout for another moving aircraft. Sure, planes in the pattern are safe, but those on the ramp may not be.

Soapbox relinquished to the next guy...
 
vmirv8bldr said:
Soapbox relinquished to the next guy...
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OK, I'll take it since no one else has.

I agree with almost everything said on this thread, but...

As for the "And Peapatch traffic..." I almost sorta kinda like this one. It goes a long way to counteract the tendency of many if not most to start talking a half second before pushing the PTT and thus cutting off the first word of every transmission. Since the first word is usually your location, this is important. I deal with this all the time at work (police radio communications) so it is not unique to pilots, but is a very well documented phenomenon.

Having said that, here's my own pet peeve: There is absolutely no reason for the word "experimental" to ever be uttered on a unicom/ CTAF. "Peapatch traffic, experimental N123AB..." is pretty useless but commonly heard. Experimental could be a Lancair 4P or a Breezy. For that matter, N#s are pretty useless. "Peapatch traffic, white RV, left base 27" is a short radio call that communicates all necessary information in the least amount of time.
 
My personal skin crawler at an uncontrolled field...from five miles out "does anyone know the active at peapatch?" "peapatch, what's your active?"; "peapatch, what's your active?" "peapatch, wha'ts your active?"; "Peapatch traffic, Cessna 123 left downwind for the active" "peapatch, cessna turning base for the active" ; peapatch, cessna clear of the active"...

aggggh!! Who taught them this?
 
Ted Johns said:
Instead of requesting position reports from "everyone", just give your position report. That's what the AIM recommends, and traffic that's close will either speak up or get out the way. Or not, in which case they either don't have a radio, or fly like they don't. :rolleyes:
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I may have to rethink my procedures. I agree with your logic. It makes sense to me! :eek:
 
Since we're stating our pet peeves...

The correct nomenclature is "non-towered" airport. Calling a non-towered airport "uncontrolled" presents a bad connotation to the general public, and gives some pilots a pass to be idiots. PILOTS control a non-towered airport -- we all perform the tower controller's job. If you listen to a tower controller at work you can get a very good word picture of the traffic situation at an airport; you'll also have a better understanding of the FAA-recommended self-announce radio calls. I believe a control tower tour for new students should be MANDATORY. I also believe if instructors taught their students to think in these terms early it might help with radio congestion.

Regarding taxi reports; at our home airport (3K6) you can't see either end of the end of the runway from the ramp. There is a narrow taxiway from the center of the runway to the ramp which has a wide spot for a runup area just off the runway. Most pilots land and slow enough to turn off at the taxiway. Self-announcing taxi from the ramp can help prevent two aircraft sitting nose-to-nose on the narrow taxiway between the ramp and the runway.

Regards,

Mark
 
Radio Calls

At our non-towered airport (T67) we have many foreign students training. One day while our flight of 4 RV's were nearing the pattern one student called out that he was on the upwind for 1-4 at Hicks. Well! :eek: I was lead and about a half mile from intersecting the upwind at pattern altitude. I did a quick scan, in both directions, and saw no traffic but did see one of the flight school's yellow & white 152s departing 14. When he announced he was turning left crosswind I realized it was the same student that announced the "upwind" leg.
It now has become clear that the foreign instructors at this flight school are teaching the pattern with rules that apply to non-USA nomenclature.
When I take off behind them and they announce they are on the upwind leg, I always stress that RV 7CW is rolling on 1-4 and DEPARTING the pattern and I am NOT on the upwind leg. It does no good, they come around for a touch-and-go and say the exact thing again.

Part two, last weekend while enroute to Chapter 983's Spring Fly-In at Pecan Plantation near Granbury, TX, I heard a Cherokee that announced "Cherokee XXXX entering the left downwind for 1-7 at Bridgeport, any traffic in the area please advise!" I was so close to keying the mic and announcing that I was on downwind turning base but I restrained myself. It's scary that you could be sharing the sky with this kind of pilot that can't even check the pattern ahead of himself. :eek:

Let's all be safe out there and attempt to use the brain that God gave us!
 
Msletten said:
Regarding taxi reports; at our home airport (3K6) you can't see either end of the end of the runway from the ramp. There is a narrow taxiway from the center of the runway to the ramp which has a wide spot for a runup area just off the runway. Most pilots land and slow enough to turn off at the taxiway. Self-announcing taxi from the ramp can help prevent two aircraft sitting nose-to-nose on the narrow taxiway between the ramp and the runway.
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I guess my original pet peeve, really, are things done for no reason. Think about what you do and why. If the "why" is just because... it may be unnecessary. If there's a good reason - by all means, do what you think you should.

Bottom line is - keep those eyeballs out the window and watch what you and everyone else is doing. Self announcing - or having a Mode C / S trsp - or traffic avoidance equip - or being on an IFR flight plan - or talking to a tower, might not keep you seperated from the other guy.
 
I'd like to pipe in too.. since I haven't seen this one :)
How about heading in to the airport where you have a north/south runway (35 and 17). You listen to awos and winds are out of the southeast..let's say 140. You get setup for 17 and then there's a guy doing a runup at 35.. you come on the radio and say something like "aircraft holding short 35... you realize the winds are favoring 17?" And he says something like "yeah,well a guy took off a little while ago on 35, so it's the active".. argggh!!
 
Inhale folks

Although improper radio procedure, I'll take an improper one over none any day. 2 C172's converging equals about 220 knots which is close to a mile every 15 seconds. Frontal view of a plane at mile is not large. 2 RV's will do that in about 8 seconds. My scan may be good but not that good.

Be sure to speak up and tell the guy what you think so he will quit transmitting because he's embarressed at his technique. Especially that new pilot.

At least these guys are trying to be safe.
 
Webb said:
At least these guys are trying to be safe.
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True, they are trying, but their efforts have the unintended consequence of making the overall situation less safe, due to radio congestion/ calls being stepped on. A little education might help. And, I know from long experience that an embarrassing mistake is often a good teacher!
 
My pet peeves

I have a couple to throw in here.

1) people who use their whole N Number on every call. It just takes up space

2) people who announce every leg of the pattern even when no one else is around

3) people in VMC doing instrument training calling their position out in IMC terms. For instance, someone announces "DeKalb traffic, Cessna 1234AB Krone inbound GPS 9 approach." Anyone in the airport vacinity who is not instrument rated will not have any idea what they are talking about, and if they are instrument rated but don't have the approach plates will not know where the traffic is.

If you're in VMC it does not matter if you're under the hood or practicing IFR approaches, announce your position so everyone knows where you are.
 
sprucemoose said:
True, they are trying, but their efforts have the unintended consequence of making the overall situation less safe, due to radio congestion/ calls being stepped on. A little education might help. And, I know from long experience that an embarrassing mistake is often a good teacher!
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Jeff - you have a good point but I have yet to see congestion at an untowered airport for more than a few seconds.

I have to tell you the chewing out by a controller I got as a student pilot at my first controlled airport was a great teacher. My radio work was aOK shortly later. The spanking I got still smarts and that was a few years ago. He must have spilled his coffee in his lap too.
 
Bubblehead said:
2) people who announce every leg of the pattern even when no one else is around
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I've got to disagree with this one a little bit. How do you know nobody is around? Maybe somebody 5 miles our just came on frequency and is getting set up for the pattern. I would rather announce all the time and hopefully have them get set up with me in mind than have them come blazing in not knowing I was there.

My pet-peve is the pilot that waits until his on top of the airport before they tunes in the CTAF. I can't tell you how many times I've been cut-off by another aircraft at an non-towered field because they waited to the last second to come on frequency. For example, when flying into Petaluma one day I had been listening to the CTAF from 15 out and announced my intentions to enter the patern as I got closer. I entered the flow of traffic on the 45 and announced my position at 1 mile 45 for X-X. Not ten seconds later I had someone dive and turn onto the 45 right in front of me, and announce he was now on a 1/2 mile 45. This aircraft had not transmitted ANYTHING prior, and it was clear he had just come on frequency and had no idea what was going on around him cutting me and another guy on downwind off in the process.
 
Loquacious yammering

I'm really not bothered too much by most of the peaves listed so far because at the very least they provide some useful info for SA (most of the time). What bugs me is listening to guys on my airport's CTAF talking about their formation rendezvous points, where they are going to stop for lunch, etc. The other day when I was coming into the pattern,I couldn't get a word in until short final.
Chuck Olsen
RV-7A
TSP
 
I have no problem with any of your examples. I'd MUCH rather have a few extra calls than have too few calls, at least I know that there's somebody there.
 
THINK.....Then talk....

Wow - good long thread!

I have often expressed frustration to friends about the growing use of "taxi" calls, and the reason is frequency congestion here in a big metro area - we have six airports within radio range on the same frequency, and when people make taxi calls, they can't hear that they are clobbering airborne calls at other airports. And most of the time, taxi calls don't really add much to the airborne situational awareness.

However, a taxi call CAN be useful in certain circumstances, as have been mentioned. My rule is to use your head and THINK before you transmit anything. Does what you are about to say actually help others, or are you doing it by rote? Taxiing to the pump is usually not going to keep people in the air much safer. If there are blind spots - talk away! Two guys sitting head to head on a taxiway trying to figure out who is to go where? Good idea!

Use you head before you use the mic, and minimize chatter - especially on a nice weather day in a busy metro area.....

Paul
 
Bubblehead said:
2) people who announce every leg of the pattern even when no one else is around

3) people in VMC doing instrument training calling their position out in IMC terms. For instance, someone announces "DeKalb traffic, Cessna 1234AB Krone inbound GPS 9 approach."
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#2 - How do you know nobody else is around? Maybe their radio isn't transmitting. Maybe they think they're transmitting and they aren't. What if two people think that nobody else is around and don't announce?

#3 - Absolutely agreed. How is someone flying VFR supposed to know where the **** intersection XYZ is located? Unless (1) it's your home airport or (2) you've flown that approach before, you're going to be guessing.

TODR
 
RV7Factory said:
My pet-peve is the pilot that waits until his on top of the airport before they tunes in the CTAF. .
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Gotta agree with you there Brad. I had an incident where I was doing pattern work on 21 at MNM on a rather calm day. Announcing all my pattern legs (sorry for those who don't like that). I had just announced left base when I hear "Menominee traffic, Cherokee XYZ is on short final for runway 3, Menominee." Huh????!! I turned final and did an upwind leg for 21 and sure enough, just as I was at midfield, there was the Cherokee touching down on 3.

After I landed and calmed down, I politely asked the Cherokee pilot if she had heard me announcing for 21. Her response was, "Oh...I was talking with Green Bay departure." Again, HUH????!!

I am too nice a guy and resisted the urge to tell her that THIS AIN'T GREEN BAY!!! I know, I should have.............
 
RV7Factory said:
I've got to disagree with this one a little bit. How do you know nobody is around? Maybe somebody 5 miles our just came on frequency and is getting set up for the pattern. I would rather announce all the time and hopefully have them get set up with me in mind than have them come blazing in not knowing I was there.
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Here's what I sometimes hear.

...N1234 left downwind...
...N1234 turning base...
...N1234 left base...
...N1234 turning final...
...N1234 final...
...N1234 short final...
...N1234 very short final...
...N1234 almost touching down...
...N1234 barely touching the runway...

There ends up being no time for anyone else to get more than one call in. It clogs up the frequency. This is doubly troubling when several airports share a CTAF in an area.
 
Although I agree this is excessive, this is just about what it took to make my DE happy on my Instrument Checkride at KVJI.....

Bubblehead said:
Here's what I sometimes hear.

...N1234 left downwind...
...N1234 turning base...
...N1234 left base...
...N1234 turning final...
...N1234 final...
...N1234 short final...
...N1234 very short final...
...N1234 almost touching down...
...N1234 barely touching the runway...

There ends up being no time for anyone else to get more than one call in. It clogs up the frequency. This is doubly troubling when several airports share a CTAF in an area.
Click to expand...
 
What's the difference

The one I get a kick out of, and I do hear it pretty often, is the report of left final or right final. I'm not sure what the difference in either of those is with "just plain final." Yeh, that's the ticket, I think I'll start reporting "just plain final" for clarity.
 
Maybe that was me

Bubblehead said:
Here's what I sometimes hear.

...N1234 left downwind...
...N1234 turning base...
...N1234 left base...
...N1234 turning final...
...N1234 final...
...N1234 short final...
...N1234 very short final...
...N1234 almost touching down...
...N1234 barely touching the runway...

There ends up being no time for anyone else to get more than one call in. It clogs up the frequency. This is doubly troubling when several airports share a CTAF in an area.
Click to expand...

Normally not so much, but if I don't hear anyone else, I'll do a lot a self announcing in case anyone just came on frequency, etc.
 
i call out my position, because my instructor pointed it out in the AIM and because the my examiner looks for it. i dont do the taxi stuff but then i rarely take off from a non towered field...dougs front page is a perfect example of people not wanting to communicate. http://picasaweb.google.com/VansAirForce/52FRunwayIncursion_051508 (not saying thats what happened here)
it does bug me to do it so often. i can be 10 miles from the airport buring holes in the sky monitoring the radio on 123.00 and hear nothing for 30 minutes then as soon as decide to go and do some tng's and call out overflying that field, 2-3 folks will chime in and mention "n12345 entering leftdownwind from rwy 5" or whatever, yet i havent heard a transmission in the past 30 minutes..the bad thing is, it at three different airports. why do so many airports use the same freq?
I love towered fields because i hate calling into the blind, but i do it.
 
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