Phil

Phil

Well Known Member
Obviously, since I'm on the empennage section, I'm still learning the in's and out's of building. Along with being a rookie comes learning what is and is not acceptable.

Here's one of the decisions that I'd like some assistance with.

On page 7-4 you are tasked with finishing the edges of R-1005, drilling two holes to #30 followed by a countersink, and then counter sinking two more holes on the other side.

I did a beautiful job all the way down to the very last countersink. That's when the cage of the countersink rode up on a bend. I now have an oval and the rivet sits below flush.

R-1005 is the rudder horn sandwiched between the spar and the bottom rib. If you've got your plans, there's a pretty good drawing on 7-4.

Judging to from thickness of the part, R-1005 is going to be subject to more signigicant force than I would expect. Should I call VANS and get it right with R-1005 or is it okay to let this one claim victory over me?
Phil


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If it were mine,

I would use it. It does look like there is a bit of scratching there, needs to be polished out.

This unit ties in to the rudder in a couple more places, and there appears to still be plenty of meat left under the rivet hole. Lots of strength left, IMHO.

If you are really concerned, then by all means, call Vans. Next to you, the manufacture, they are the authority.

I would wait to see what others here on the forum say, though, before I called Vans.

Good luck.
 
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Being a novice RV-10 builder myself, I've always taken a conservative approach and ask the folks here, the Matronics list, and Van's for advice when I've made a mistake. The majority of the time, the response is, "just keep building and don't be worried".

I don't consider myself an expert, but this appears to look like one of those situations.
 
I just checked VANS and it's a $17 part. I went ahead and ordered a replacement. Might as well do it right if you're going to do it.

I did learn a valuable lesson though. In tight places where the countersink cage can interfere with getting a good square hole, remove the cage and put it in a drill press. If I had put the bit in the drill press and removed the cage, I could have kept the hole square and controlled the depth with the stops on the drill press.

Phil
 
Also standard practice is to take an extra "cage" and cut out one side so you can get into tight corners. You will come across this again during the building process.
 
So Mel, in your humble opinion do you think starting with a new part was the right thing to do? Or could I have gotten away with that one?

Just curious for future reference.

Phil
 
Loose rivet

If you squeeze a rivet that is that far down in it's countersunk hole, there is a pretty good probability that it will be a loose rivet and not contribute anything to the structure.

Think about the geometry involved during the riveting process....

gil A
 
Like Gil says, if you drive a rivet in this situation, it will probably not be properly seated in the hole because your rivet set will allow the head to be flush with the surface and not properly seated to the bottom of the countersunk hole. If you can someway make sure that the rivet head IS properly seated it should be OK.
 
Mel said:
Like Gil says, if you drive a rivet in this situation, it will probably not be properly seated in the hole because your rivet set will allow the head to be flush with the surface and not properly seated to the bottom of the countersunk hole. If you can someway make sure that the rivet head IS properly seated it should be OK.
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Lead shot. Same diameter as rivet head. It will mush into the correct shape to hold the rivet head, but wont completely blow out of the squeezer.

Old trick from somewhere deep in my poor tired brain.
 
Mike S said:
Lead shot. Same diameter as rivet head. It will mush into the correct shape to hold the rivet head, but wont completely blow out of the squeezer.

Old trick from somewhere deep in my poor tired brain.
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That should work! You ARE talking about the lead shot being on TOP of the rivet head and not under it?
 
Phil said:
That's a great idea. Any issues with disimilar metals?
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The lead shot is not intended to stay in place, it is just used to fill the extra space while squeezing the rivet so that the rivet is seated in the bottom of the hole.

Another trick I have used (to fix other peoples mistakes, not mine ;) ) is to use a whitney punch to punch an aluminum slug the proper diameter and thikness to fill the void and allow squeezing the rivit tightly into the bottom of the excessively deep countersink. You can punch it out of whatever thickness material will work best for the particular situation.
 
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