captainron

captainron

Well Known Member
Does anyone recognize this part? It is F-712, the rear bulkhead in the fuselage.



It was removed (no small feat) in order to locate and attach the beautiful bare-metal tailwheel mounting bracket,



and also to try to get the aft fuselage skins to fit somewhere close to what the designer had in mind. The side with the clecos is the aft-facing side, so you would think that the flanges would be bent to accomodate the taper of the fuselage. You would be wrong in assuming this!



I have to think that the builders take these parts as recieved from Vans, and just rivet them together with no adjustments. The next photo is of the fuselage in the area of F-711, the next bulkhead forward. It is installed in the same manner producing these results:






This is not quite as bad as it looks; the light makes the reflections look like huge dents. The F-712 bulkhead should have both flanges bent to follow the tapers of the fuselage here, but this is how they chose to build it:



As I'm writing this, I'm awaiting the delivery of Van's special tool to re-work the ski-jumps on the QB wing trailing edges. They asked if I would kindly return it as soon as I'm done so they can get it right out to the next lucky builder.

I hope Vans reads these posts!
 
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Part of our job is to flute and bend parts as needed to fit the installation. Vans does not do all the fitting, fluting and bending, nor do they point out every thing on which you may need to perform final fitting. It's one of the tasks they stop mentioning as the build progresses.

Jekyll
 
Factory built?

Jekyll said:
Part of our job is to flute and bend parts as needed to fit the installation. Vans does not do all the fitting, fluting and bending, nor do they point out every thing on which you may need to perform final fitting. It's one of the tasks they stop mentioning as the build progresses.

Jekyll
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Maybe, but isn't this part already installed in Van's factory for the QB kits?

On the old "drill all the holes yourself" kits this was a problem area. Even after the flanges were bent to the correct angle, the skin did not lay flush. Usually a shim was needed on the forward one of the two pieces.

gil in Tucson
 
Gil, this bulkhead was permanantly riveted together, and then pop-riveted into the tailcone. When I saw how poorly the fit was I decided to remove it to re-work it. To get it out without doing additional damage, I had to drill out fifteen flush rivets holding the two pieces together and remove the two pieces seperately. The next bulkhead forward, F-711, is permanantly installed, as you can see by the double row of flush rivets on the outside skin. (Where the dents are). My point is that both bulkheads were "fitted" this way and I don't think entire structures should have to be disassembled, re-worked, and re-assembled as part of our educational or building experience when we have paid the price for Quick-build.
 
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captainron said:
Gil, this bulkhead was permanantly riveted together, and then pop-riveted into the tailcone. When I saw how poorly the fit was I decided to remove it to re-work it. To get it out without doing additional damage, I had to drill out fifteen flush rivets holding the two pieces together and remove the two pieces seperately. The next bulkhead forward, F-711, is permanantly installed, as you can see by the double row of flush rivets on the outside skin. (Where the dents are). My point is that both bulkheads were "fitted" this way and I don't think entire structures should have to be disassembled, re-worked, and re-assembled as part of our educational or building experience when we have paid the price for Quick-build.
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Ron,
It's good to see that your standards of workmanship are high. The reality of ribs and bulkheads is that a 90 degree bend is pretty much the limit of what Vans hydroforming machine can do. You learn during building the empennage that rib flanges on tapered assemblies must be bent beyond 90 degrees. I suspect that the Philipinos at the quickbuild factory are in to much of a rush.
I stopped by HWO yesterday to help RV9A builder Peter Laurence. He was riveting his tailcone assembly together. I can tell you that riveting the rear half of the F-911 together is a bear, due to the compound curving of the belly skin. As you are learning, sometimes, the slow build method allows more control over the building process. Since the bulkhead was only Pop riveted into the tailcone, it appears obvious to me that Vans installation was considered temporary.
Charlie Kuss
 
Ron I'm curious how long ago you ordered the QB. Last week I ordered a 7 QB fuse and wing. I would be interested in finding out from other builders what the quality is of the most recent QB kits. It's my understanding that Vans inspects these kits before recrating and shipping to the owners. Hopefully I haven't made a big mistake, but I would not be very happy in having to deal with the issues that you have addressed in your post. If Vans knows there is a problem such as the ski-jump, why is it not being taken care of in the Phillipines or cetainly at Vans in Oregon before shipment. The quality issue solely rests with Vans.
 
QB fuse and wings

They were ordered right before Oshkosh, and delivered by Tony Partain about 11 days ago. The -7's seem to be "in stock", or at least were before OSH.
Where's Gulf Breeze?
 
My 7 QB kit had the same issues back there. I just tweakedthe flanges on the aftmost bulkhead as best I could before riveting it in for good. The next bulkhead forward was like yours also, but there's not much to do about it after the fact. My fuselage "pooches out" a little at the tail, but I guarantee you will not see it when I'm flying over at 200 mph. :)

mcb
Put on first coat of interior paint tonight!
 
I know, it's just that it's my name that will be on record as the builder, not Van's or the Filipino that did this!
 
captainron said:
Where's Gulf Breeze?
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Gulf Breeze is where all the UFO's used to hang out :p

FWIW, I have no complaints about my QB fuselage. I haven't looked at the wings all that closely, but I'm not going to be bothered by a bit of a ski jump if there is on. Overall, I'd say the QB boys have done at least as good of a job as I did on my first slow build RV-8.

Rusty (not far from Gulf Breeze)
 
Gulf Breeze is next to Pensacola. I imagine a good metal guy could slick out most if not all of that dent. Vans told me about a month for delivery. I attend Alexander tech school on the 23rd of October, but could take delivery either before or after. The hangar is ready and the build will be done across the border in Lillian, AL. Let me know if you turn up any other Gremlins.
 
I picked up my 7 QB at the factory on September 5. The wings and fuselage are very well done. The tailcone area is smooth and the wing trailing edges are perfect. You might have got the one built on a Monday. Don
 
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