[jarhead]

While at Altus AFB last week, I found myself talking to another student who's also an A&P and interested in RV's and other homebuilts. He asked me if I planned to get the Repairman certificate for my RV after I'm finished building it. I had not thought about it before...

As an A&P you obviously don't need it - but is there any advantage to getting the cert. that I haven't thought of?

 

[Kahuna]

Certainly 2 reasons I can think of.
1. If you happen to let your A&P expire
2. If your A&P ticket(license to operate) is pulled
3. If your working under a co. that does not allow you to use your license outside of work.(other liability risks)

The repairman cert. is free. Get it. You may not always have our A&P for what ever reason.

Best,

 

[grover]

agreed

for the unforseen. something to add to the resume (God forbid I need it) and something else for the "I Love Me" wall.

 

[RV8N]

I believe the Repairman's Certificate would be on the same physical card as the A&P. In that case, if you got in trouble with the feds, I think they would pull all of it instead of just the A&P. I may be wrong.

Karl

 

[brianwallis]

small correction

The A&P does not expire... what I think Kahuna means is you can become "out of current" from not using it. I would go ahead and get the repairmans certificate for that aircraft if you are planning on keeping it for more than one year. The only way you can lose you A&P is if you surrender it, or it is taken away by the FAA for punishment. Kahuna is absolutely right though... GET IT... and keep it.. It's free and you never know what you may need if for. The IA ticket does expire every year on March 31st. It has to be renewed either by 4 annuals or 8 major repairs or a seminar. Get your repairmans cert, stay current on your A&P and try and get your IA.
Best
Brian

 

[Will Womack]

As an A&P I had decided to get the Repairman's cert as well. It can't hurt. However, I remember reading a post from an A&P who was actually denied the cert because he had an A&P

 

[osxuser]

I would get it because as an A&P we are required to keep records of all our work, and I wouldn't want to include my own RV maintainence with my other 'jobs'. Also if you screw something up on the RV, and signed it off with the Repairmen Cert, it MIGHT not transfer over as a ding on my A&P Cert, although this is all theory.

P.S. Nothing that I know of prevents an A&P from getting a repairmens cert...

 

[Bruce]

Ken,

I hope you got to see some RV's at Altus. There are 4 RV's that will be up and running there. Get the RC and hope you get the 10 job.

 

[WSBuilder]

Annual Sign-Off

The question not asked is whether a non-AI A&P builder can legally sign off on the annual, while the repairman CAN?

 

[Mel]

AI is not required for any phase on experimental aircraft.

 

[RVbySDI]

The question not asked is whether a non-AI A&P builder can legally sign off on the annual, while the repairman CAN?

I am not sure I fully understand this question/statement but if I do understand what is being asked/said here; Having an A&P certificate allows you to work on aircraft but it does not allow you to inspect any aircraft. In order to inspect an aircraft that you do not hold a repairman certificate on you must hold an IA.

If you build your airplane and get the repairman certificate you are able to do all repairs on that airplane. That repairman certificate also gives you the right to inspect the aircraft for which the certificate was written. However, it does not give you permission to work on or inspect any other aircraft.

 

[Scott DellAngelo]

Not to hyjack the thread, but what all needs to be done in order to get an A&P license? As I have understood from some others, you need 1500 (or something) hours practical and then pass written and oral tests? Also, as I understand having built an RV that should count for most or all of the practical so you are down to oral and and written tests? Anyone know the scope? I would like to get my A&P so it could help owning a spam can in the future less expensive.

Thanks,
Scott
RV-9A - N598SD - Flying - ~90hours

 

[Mel]

I am not sure I fully understand this question/statement but if I do understand what is being asked/said here; Having an A&P certificate allows you to work on aircraft but it does not allow you to inspect any aircraft. In order to inspect an aircraft that you do not hold a repairman certificate on you must hold an IA.

If you build your airplane and get the repairman certificate you are able to do all repairs on that airplane. That repairman certificate also gives you the right to inspect the aircraft for which the certificate was written. However, it does not give you permission to work on or inspect any other aircraft.

Steve, An A&P can do inspections. He can do a 100 hr inspection on any aircraft. He cannot sign off an annual inspection. Experimental aircraft don't get annual inspections. They get "condition" inspections. The repairman certificate does not allow one to perform maintenance on an experimental. Anyone can do that. The repairman certificate allows one to sign off the condition inspection on an experimental aircraft. And you are correct in that the certificate is for a specific aircraft in the example of an amateur-built aircraft.

 

[Mel]

Not to hyjack the thread, but what all needs to be done in order to get an A&P license? As I have understood from some others, you need 1500 (or something) hours practical and then pass written and oral tests? Also, as I understand having built an RV that should count for most or all of the practical so you are down to oral and and written tests? Anyone know the scope? I would like to get my A&P so it could help owning a spam can in the future less expensive.

Thanks,
Scott
RV-9A - N598SD - Flying - ~90hours

Scott,
This is a very controversial subject and it depends on "where" you go for testing. The experience requirements are 30 months airframe and 30 months powerplant or combined 36 months both. According to the FARs, this experience must be on certificated aircraft. However some people have been able to count building an amateur-built as this experience. After you have whatever experience you get by with, you have 3 written tests, airframe, powerplant, and general. Then you have 2 practical tests, airframe and powerplant. Followed by a very extensive oral test. In all of the testing, if you miss ONE safety question, you automatically fail and must retest.

 

[WSBuilder]

A&P vs. Repairman

Steve, An A&P can do inspections. He can do a 100 hr inspection on any aircraft. He cannot sign off an annual inspection. Experimental aircraft don't get annual inspections. They get "condition" inspections. The repairman certificate does not allow one to perform maintenance on an experimental. Anyone can do that. The repairman certificate allows one to sign off the condition inspection on an experimental aircraft. And you are correct in that the certificate is for a specific aircraft in the example of an amateur-built aircraft.

So as an A&P, would I be able to accomplish the "condition" inspection for my plane (that I built) if I did not acquire the Repairman Cert?

 

[Mel]

So as an A&P, would I be able to accomplish the "condition" inspection for my plane (that I built) if I did not acquire the Repairman Cert?

Yes, As an A&P you can do the condition inspection on any experimental amateur-built. But be sure not to sign them off as "annual inspections". The exact wording for the sign off is in the operating limitations for that aircraft. I do them all the time for people who bought their airplanes.

 

[Kahuna]

One final data point from me.
I have had 2 friends build rv's that were IA's and A&P's and worked as mechanics for local major carrier in Atlanta. They got their repairmans cert. for the RV plane and sign logs using repairmans cert# when they work on their RV's. They did not want to intertwine work credentials with the experimental world.
Last thing they want to do is have an issue in the experimental work that could lead to issues for bringing home the bacon.

In fact, niether of those guys will use their A&P for friends RV condition inspections or other cert. GA work on the field for fear of risking thier day jobs. Their day job does not prevent them from doing it, they just wont.

Best,

 

[SteinAir]

Not to hyjack the thread, but what all needs to be done in order to get an A&P license? As I have understood from some others, you need 1500 (or something) hours practical and then pass written and oral tests? Also, as I understand having built an RV that should count for most or all of the practical so you are down to oral and and written tests? Anyone know the scope? I would like to get my A&P so it could help owning a spam can in the future less expensive.

Thanks,
Scott
RV-9A - N598SD - Flying - ~90hours

Kind of...except for all that Turbine stuff, helicopter stuff, engine building stuff, FAR stuff, paperwork stuff, electrical stuff, tube/fabric, composites, instruments, and the other multitude of subjects that one should at least have a basic practical experience with. Of course this gets skirted occasionally, but definately is not within the spirit of the regs...

Cheers,
Stein.

 

[SteinAir]

One final data point from me.
I have had 2 friends build rv's that were IA's and A&P's and worked as mechanics for local major carrier in Atlanta. They got their repairmans cert. for the RV plane and sign logs using repairmans cert# when they work on their RV's. They did not want to intertwine work credentials with the experimental world.
Last thing they want to do is have an issue in the experimental work that could lead to issues for bringing home the bacon.

In fact, niether of those guys will use their A&P for friends RV condition inspections or other cert. GA work on the field for fear of risking thier day jobs. Their day job does not prevent them from doing it, they just wont.

Best,

That's just a wee bit crazy.....and frankly they aren't gaining a thing. The work done at the major air carriers is typically signed off with your employee #/badge number, not your A&P number. Because of the 145 cert most of them carry, everyone working within that environmentl is in fact working as a repairman for that repair station....Things like taxi/run quals, RII certs, RVSM certs, Inspection credentials, etc.. are all gained under the repair station, not their A&P. Having an A&P is not a federal requirement for the air carriers other than a few key positions (which are clearly spelled out in the 121 regs), it's just that most of them hire A&P's due to experience or education. The whole "A&P" for an air carrier is is a misnomer that often gets repeated, but I haven't yet figured out where that comes from.

Just my 2 cents a usual.

Cheers,
Stein.

 

[osxuser]

I do experimental annuals on a fairly regular basis. I probably should look up the exact wording to use for the signoff, but normally I just emulate the last signoff that was done. It usually goes something like this:

I certify that this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an annual condition inspection, using ______ checklist, and has been found to be in airworthy condition.

Pretty much the same wording used for 100hr and Annual signoffs. Engine signoffs are an interesting subject, but why highjack a perfectly good thread?

 

[Mel]

Be careful how you sign of the condition inspection for an amateur-built. There have been people called on the carpet for using the words "annual inspection". An annual inspection implies that the aircraft meets it's "type certificate". An amateur-built does not have a type certificate. The wording should be the following or similar. "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of FAR part 43, appendix D and found to be in a condition for safe operation." This wording is in the operating limitations for each aircraft.

 

[WSBuilder]

Building Progress Inspections

Mel,
Great input for a rusty A&P like me. Thanks for sharing your expertise. But now tell me, what are the requirements for my -4 to have inspections while I build since I'm an A&P?

 

[Mel]

There are actually no inspections REQUIRED. A few are recommended. Not because you are an A&P, but because another set of eyes may see something that you miss because you are so close to the project. No matter how good or experienced you are, it's easy to overlook something when you look at it everyday.

 

[jarhead]

Wow... lots of conversation, and I haven't had time to check on this all week.

I guess the smart thing to do would be to get the Repairman cert. Can't hurt to have it.... and I honestly didn't even consider a future without my A&P. I worked completely outside the aviation world for 6 months after a bad experience with a previous civilian employer soured me on aviation... and found myself absolutely miserable. Went back to school to get the license, and vowed never to make that mistake again! But anything's possible I suppose, and I'd hate to screw myself out of being able to work on my own aircraft.



Kahuna - your friends who aren't "using their A&P's on experimentals" are not shielding themselves from anything, according to the DME who administered my oral & practical exams. I asked him about this subject over the summer, and his view is that if anything were to happen that would warrant an investigation of an experimental's logbooks by the Feds, anyone who signed anything in them would be held to the standard of the highest privilege that person holds. I believe the same thing is true for pilots, too.