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Erik.37m

Member
Hi everyone, I'm new to Vans Air force but I've been a member or the EAA since 1989. I use to be interested in Fiberglass kit planes but over the years I've seen how Vans planes have become the "Plane to build". When I opened my newest Sport Aviation I was impressed with the RV-14. Now I've been to the web site and Met Ken K. in his video presentation of the plane. I was impress with the plane and him (Sad to see him leave the company). The RV-14 got my desire to build going again now that my life should be able to handle the extra work load. I was impress with how far Documentation has come and manufacturing completeness of the kit. Those are big in my view. Not just the type of plane. Plug and play works for me. I own a small machine shop that has CNC machining capability and also sheet-metal as well as Structural fabrication (2 man shop). I wouldn't mind being steered the correct way. Making mistakes is a part of the business and I can do without them.
My question to the members is Getting the Quick build kit the way to go if you forget about the extra cost?
I've look at a lot of builders logs by members and their seems to be a lot of other stuff that needs to get done other than assembly of the sheetmetal. I'm worried about the time involved. I don't have a lot of spare time but I'm willing to try to do it.
My other question would be, by past account how long does it take before the QB kits become available after the Standard kits start shipping? I emailed Vans and they just said they ship standard kits first.
My last question would be the Quality of manufacturing by Bonanza in the Philippines. Is there quality top notch and consistent kit by kit. Or is doing the job myself going to give better results. I try to make a point of doing the job correct and clean. I betting they do a great job but without seeing there work I need others in verifying my opinion.
Thanks, Erik
 
RV-8

Erik,

I bought a QB from someone else. The QB is from 2005. I have found the work to be very good! I am pleased with it and even though its from 2005 its in great shape! I don't have the time either so I went with the QB. Oh...I also have had my own machine shop in the past and as a toolmaker in my days before I only like top notch quality:D


YOL BOLSON!!!
 
Welcome to VAF, Erik.

I bought a -6A QB in 2005 and was very, very impressed with the workmanship and never regretted the decision.

I wanted to fly soon and that was the reason for going QB.

Best,
 
I am a tool and die maker also and run my own small shop in Arkansas. It took me over 7 years to build my slow build RV-9A while trying to put food on the table. Would absolutely buy a quick build if I had it to do over. I missed way too much flying. There is plenty of work left even with a quick build. Good luck with your decision.
 
A data base of one

I imagine there are equally strong opinions on both sides of the ?slow? vice ?quick? build decision. I went the QB route based entirely on my desire to finish in the shortest amount of time. I surfed the various sources for build times (forum, builders logs) and concluded that ?slow? build is appropriately named. But you have to consider all the variables among which are: your skill level, your anal-ness (or how fussy are you), build vs fly motivation, age (how much runway do you have left), and funding. As for funding I think I was motivated to go the QB route in part because of its reasonable cost.
As for delivery time. I ordered my RV8 kit in mid-January 2008 and got the initial kit in mid-February. First flight was 18 Feb 2012 which included a lot (4 months) downtime for painting. I painted the aircraft in pieces (actually the paint shop did it) times two. That is I shipped everything to the paint shop in the most disassembled state possible to get it primed (live across the river from Cape Canaveral the earths most corrosive environment) and again for final paint. I was never at a work stoppage due to Vans. I worked on the kit weekends-only in 2008, retired and went full time 2009-2012.
I am satisfied with the QB quality. My mentor was a quality inspector at the Cape, a multi-time builder and retired USAF mechanic. He pronounced the quality as superior. I am confident that Vans did a better job than could I.
Again, this is a data base of one. Do yourself a favor and read this most valuable forum. Literally everything you need is there; you just have to dig for it.
 
QB Quality

The QB Quality is excelent. I have been involved with over 40 RVs, most were QB kits. The only problems were in a few kits that Vans had assembled in Europe.
Bonanza builders are good.
My personal RV8 QB is better built than I could do. I am totaly happy with it, after 450 hours flying.
 
I bought unstarted QB wings second hand on here for about the price of a slow build wing kit. Quality was very good, I figured that saved me a year or two building, (I'm still working full time), but I do plan on a slow build fuse kit in Jan.
 
Being an aircraft judge for quite a few years now and having closely inspected literally hundreds of RVs I think I can fairly state the following.

The factory riveting of a QB RV kit is generally of higher quality than the builder riveting of the average SB kit.

However, the very best of the SB projects (the show planes) invariably exhibit riveting that is noticeably superior to a QB.

When RVs come up for judging I can usually pick the QB kits immediately by the drop in quality of the riveting in the limited number of areas performed by the builder. Typically the QB builder just doesn't get to instal enough rivets to become truly proficient.

To exceed QB quality of riveting on a SB you will need to rivet significant sections of the aircraft "two up" (ie. have a competent riveting partner). The worst riveting I see on both QB and SB kits invariably comes from builders attempting to rivet solo in areas with difficult access.

I hope that all makes sense.
 
I went the quickbuild route and, according to the local airport bums, gave the term "quickbuild" a bad name...7 years to build it:D I used the quality of the quickbuild riveting as my benchmark. The quickbuilders have WAY more practice and knowledge than I did. I wouldn't worry about their quality unless you know for a fact you can do better and want to spend the time doing better. All that said, I would be interested to know how the visual quality of the showplanes rivets are better than the quick build. I'm having a hard time imagining how it could be better, but that could be my lack of imagination! I saw the replica Hughs Racer before it crashed and that was the highest quality aircraft construction I ever saw. I looked though, like they used completely different techniques and perhaps very different dimples and rivets. Without that knowledge, materials, tools and experience, I can't see where it would be better than the QB. Oh, and it took 30,000 man hours to build:eek:
 
I went the slow build route for two reasons. 1) Not in a hurry - I gave myself a 5 year window to complete this project. 2) Less cost - I'm pay as you go on this, so no debt.
The slow build allows you to do some additional level of customization with certain parts of the airframe. I upgraded the fuel caps, primed everything with epoxy primer, and I painted the interior parts as I built. If you want flop tubes or capacitive fuel senders, those don't come as quick build options.

There is plenty of work to do beyond assembling the airframe. I did the tail/wings/fuselage in a little over 2 years of work (now 3 years in, with another year or two to go). The electrical, panel, engine, canopy, cowling, fairings, propeller, etc., will give you plenty hours of work to do before flying.

The extra cost of the QB is worth it if you are in a hurry, although there are many QB's out there that complete in more years than a slow build by someone who keeps putting in the consistent build hours over the life of the project. I really have enjoyed the build process, and at the end I can say that I built every part of this and pounded every rivet.
 
jjconstant said:
All that said, I would be interested to know how the visual quality of the showplanes rivets are better than the quick build. I'm having a hard time imagining how it could be better, but that could be my lack of imagination!
Click to expand...

Not lack of imagination....probably lack of a broader experience and therefore relativity. ;)

Believe me, the better built RV SB showplanes can be absolute works of riveting art. They can be truly sublime. :)

Typically the really fussy builders use dynamic impact to form their dimples. This creates lovely deep dimples with well defined discontinuity at the shoulders (not rounded shoulders). Superior two-up riveting by guys who know what they're doing can then produce lovely deep seated rivets. You wipe your fingernails across these rivets and you cannot feel an edge anywhere. The rivet tails are also all formed consistently and within specifications. On the better models you look down the rows of formed tails and at first glance they look like they've been formed by a machine.

The fussy builders also tend to back rivet in areas of high curvature. This pushes the skin outwards during the riveting process and maintains the perfect curvature. Applying the rivet gun to the outside of the skin in high curvature areas can tend to flatten the aluminium around the rivet and create discontinuities in the surface.

The average QB kit exhibits very good riveting that is generally superior to the average SB kit, but I would not describe it as really excellent in a showplane sense. Excellent value for money perhaps, but not truly excellent in terms of absolute finish. It's the same with the prime on the QBs. It's OK, but if you want a truly exceptional job you have to do it yourself.
 
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I would go with the QB

I went with QB wings and SB fuselage. If your goal is to get the aircraft in the air quickly, QB is the right answer. I sometimes wish I had gone with the QB fuselage.

As to your question, I am very satisfied with the quality of the workmanship on my QB wings. It is not show quality, but I am not building a show airplane.
 
QB

I have built three RV's and helped with a dozen or so others. I would not think building anything but a QB. The quality is outstanding and well worth the investment. It is true that if you have significant (crafttsmen level) riveting experience and wish to build a show plane go the slow build method but only for that reason.
 
Thanks Bob! It's great to hear how the great craftspeople get some plane's rivets to look so good. So often, you "know" it looks fantastic, but can't put your finger on "why".
 
Very helpful insight

To all that have answered my questions, I want to thank you for your time in responding. I put high value on all your responses. I'm getting more excited by the day to proceed with this adventure. I can see how you can rack up many hours on this web site with everybody giving there time to make sure the group of builders know that if they has questions there is either archives or members willing to respond. I need as much info as possible so I don't make the wrong decisions.
I know there are a lot of wanna-bee's but hopefully I will come thru and start building. It will be a Quick-build. Hopefully, I'm thinking, no more than six months after the release of the Standard kit they will start shipping QB's. They will need to get Bonanza up to speed. I'm definitely not a candidate for being the first off the line. I'm sure there will be revision to the directions and/or engineering changes that more experience builders will catch.
Again thanks to all.
Erik S.
 
Vans has the RV 3 (wings), 8, 9, and 10 quick build kits IN STOCK! must be a demand for the 7, didnt see that on on the in stock list.
 
Here is one way to look at it

Considering the difference in cost between the QB and SB kits for the -7 & -9 are about $11K and they save the average builder about 1,000 hours, you are paying yourself $11/hr to build those components.

It took me 2400 hours to build my slow-build -9. Another member of this forum spent about 1100 to 1200 hours to build the exact same slow-build -9 and he did a great job doing it. Granted, he had experiance building BIG planes for some company out west.

That said, I know people putting in over 3,000 hours on QB kits.

The time you spend building is directly proportional to the amount of customization you do and the "options" you elect to include in your build.

As for a -14 QB, is Van's going to do one? They haven't done one for the -12 and the build times are supposed to be very similar for both.
 
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