wirejock

wirejock

Well Known Member
Before flaming, this is hypothetical. Has anyone ever considered buying a salvaged airplane, rebuilding the motor and parting out the rest?

I know a wrecked engine has to be completely torn down and overhauled. There are quite a few out there. The question is, can it be done and will it save any cost over a new engine. Can you do it yourself?

I've torn down dozens of automotive and motorcycle engines, have most of the tools and equipment or have access to it. All overhauls were done to factory specs and using factory manuals. Every bolt was torqued to factory settings. It seems like a possible cost savings.

Time, I've got. Tools, I've got. Money, is hard to come by. Safety is the primary concern. So bad idea or possible? If it's conceivable, what should I look for?

OK, Flame away. :D

Addendum: I searched the forum. It looks like there are tons of resources for everthing from used to kits. Your thoughts would still be appreciated.
Knowledge is power and there's plenty of it in this group.
Thanks
 
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If you're getting it for free.. then yes, you *may* be able to save some money.. Otherwise, odds are strongly against you... You only need one or two bum parts (crank or case) to turn it into a net loss... It's getting hard to beat an ECI kit build-up..

Not even talking about having an all new engine vs. on-its-last-overhaul engine...
 
I'm not quite sure why everyone thinks you have to have a newly rebuilt engine to fly. Actually it's NOT good to have a new engine on a new airplane. A new engine needs to be run hard for the first few hours. Exactly the opposite of what a new airplane needs. I bought a 2500 hr Lycoming and flew for for 3 years before rebuilding it. And it really didn't need overhauling at that point.
Now for the other side of the coin: If you purchase a used engine, you need to KNOW the engine and/or the seller. I bought mine from Lucky at Air Salvage of Dallas. And Lucky is about the most honest guy you'll ever meet.
For my bi-plane I bought the engine from American Legend Aircraft. I knew both the engine and the operators throughout it's history of 250 hrs.
 
I had a friend that wrecked his Cherokee 140 and had a prop strike. I bought the engine which was a factory reman with only 500 hours on it. I got a fresh ground crank from Aircraft Specialties and had my local engine rebuild shop do the rest. New rings, complete valve jobs, ground the tappets and cam, and had the case checked. Basically I've got a majored engine out of the deal for under $10,000.00. I am very pleased with the outcome.
 
My 2001 IO-540 V4A5 is a salvaged engine from Wentworth. 501 hours SNEW when I bought it. I did the overhaul myself sending all the parts out that required a prop strike inspection/repair. Retagged it as EXP and I have only $16K into it. A considerable savings from a new EXP and even more than a certified engine. It was an enjoyable experience to overhaul the engine myself and I learned a lot in doing so. Its not for everyone and you do take a considerable risk in purchasing a salvaged engine. Just make sure you don't pay more than the core value. Good luck. Bill
 
Makes sense to me

I thought about doing what you are considering. In my business life I occasionally get bored waiting in airports, or hotel rooms, and amuse myself by sifting through the airplane auctions on Ebay. I have seen several perfectly airworthy airframes up for auction without the firewall forward. The seller clearly states they purchased the airplane for the engine. These are not airport tarmac derelicts, but air-worthy machines. It would make particularly good sense if the airplane has a new, low time, recently overhauled engine, and the airframe is a popular model for salvage. Plus, the log books are usually available and legitimate. It seems that many (most) cores don?t have any engine log info. The core I eventually purchased didn?t have the log. Another good aspect of this is the ability to fly the airplane to your location, then chop job the engine. Maybe fly it for the period leading up to your project needs. The airplane market is currently pretty soft, but demand for engine cores is not. Makes sense to me.
 
What Mel said........

I think this is a very sensible idea. I read Barnstormers all the time trying to find a good deal like that. If your patient and have the time and buy a fairly common airframe with it. you could part it out and make money.
 
I didn't buy the whole airplane, but my engine is from a hurricane Charlie'd RV-6. Bought FAF including the exhaust, engine mount, baffles and all other accessories. It is a great engine (had 885 ttsn when we got it) and should be good for many years. Saved a bundle as the stuff like baffles and engine mount were basically thrown in. Even got the wheels and brakes. Go for it!

Bob Kelly
 
You might not need a whole airplane if your just after an engine. A friend bought a used engine off a pitts that was being up graded. If I remember right it had about 800 hrs on it. We went out and saw it run did a compression check and it looks fine and he got a pretty good deal on it, well under 10K.

Brian
 
Atlanta Air Salvage is one of the better places to buy a salvaged engine...they will tell you all you need to know to make an intelligent decition. they have a very nice web site and you can see the status of each engine for sale. i.e. log books, no log book, run out, smoh, if it had a propo strike or not, etc.....

expect to pay core value for most and a little bit more for those who are serviceable ready to be bolted and used. . Since you are in the experimental world, your posibilities are a lot broader that if you had to deal with certified aircraft.

There is a nice AEIO-360 engine there right now....many other options as well

If you decide to do your own OVH. I reccoment you send all the metal (Crank, cam, rods) to Aircraft Specialties and let them certify the parts. your case to one of the several case places in Oklahoma and have them certify it as well... buy brand new Cylinders (dont shortcut here)

BTW...Atlanta Air Salvage has all kind of good stuff!

Good luck
 
me too.

I just bought an engine off a flying Pitts S1-S last Sunday. The owner/builder tried months back to sell the whole airplane with no luck so he tried parting it out and sold the engine and airframe separately within a week - good deal for everyone involved. The engine has 220SMOH (2300TT). IO-360-A1A with 10:1 pistons. I got everything firewall forward so what I can't use I'll sell. I went and looked at the engine and met the seller which I think is important because you obviously you have to put some faith in how they represent the engine, but after meeting him and looking it over I feel great about it. We'll see when it's flying.

Compared to new I should save at least $15,000.

FP27012010A0002X.jpg
 
I bought a wrecked 8A to use when building my 8. It had run out of gas and nosed over on landing. It was a complete aircraft, with 192 hours on it. Between the purchase price and the teardown on the engine and prop for inspection and repair, I had about $18k into it.

I got lucky with the teardown, and all the pieces were good. I doubt that I will ever wear out the engine, so for the price of a kit engine I got an engine, CS prop, a firewall forward kit, leather interior, radio and transponder, strobes, nav lights, a million other pieces. I was also able to save a couple grand on the finish kit with some of the deletions for useable parts, and sell a couple grand worth of parts that I was not using.
 
Thanks

Wow. So much good advice. :D I love this forum. I'll keep looking, but it's good to know I have options. A brand new engine is just not an option for my budget.
 
New or overhauled engine concern

Mel said:
Actually it's NOT good to have a new engine on a new airplane. A new engine needs to be run hard for the first few hours. Exactly the opposite of what a new airplane needs.
Click to expand...
First off I'm not trying to hijack this thread but it has brought out an interesting problem for any home builder.
Mel's statement describes exactly what has given me sleepless nights for years. The thought of taking off in a brand new home built plane with a brand new or overhauled engine is scary. There's enough to keep track of without worrying about screwing up the break-in of a very expensive engine.
A few years ago we broke-in a overhauled engine by circling the airport for hours at full throttle which worked out well but we had it installed in a well broke-in Champ.
Here's my question Mel. Is it feasible to take the time to build a test cell with proper electric blowers and ducting for cooling to break in a engine using a club or even the propeller?
Is it possible to control the load on the engine other just the RPM?
I asked Mattituck about it a few years ago when I picked up my motor because I was willing to pay the extra cost of their test cell but they kind of blew me off in a way that I thought I must be asking a stupid question.
It would be worth it to me and very easy to build but I don't think I've ever come across the idea of a break-in using a test cell.
Am I being crazy here?
 
Yes

Tom

You are not crazy.:)

That is what I plan to do and that is what ECi used to do. You can see a picture of their cooling shroud in their Engine break-in booklet. Talked with them many years ago, use your prop and build a shroud with at least 1 sq ft of intake are per cylinder.

I am not comfortable breaking in a rebuilt engine and new plane at the same time, so plan on at least 3hrs of ground running. Just now started the fabrication process.
 
Seems to easy

Thanks Wade. Found the photo in the ECI booklet. I figured cooling would be much more of a problem than just building a giant air scoop.
Anyone else out there in Vansland built his own test stand for break-in? How did it work out for you?
Being able to break-in the engine before a first flight sure would relieve some of the anxiety. There's got to be a procedure for this somewhere.
 
It's a good idea and we did it!

This is exactly what we just did. We bought an incomplete kit that came with a worn out engine. We had no idea what was inside the engine but the package price was low enough so we took the risk.

The risk has worked out and if you want the details, email me and I will happily take you thru the steps and identify which vendors worked out for us and who we would use again.
 
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