T

timandmeli

Well Known Member
My question has to do with mixing pro-seal. I didn't mix it hot enough(not enough accelerator). The batch however has a nice dark grey color. It was B-2 and its been 24 hours. Will it cure?
 
it'll cure

just give it time. i mix mine with a kitchen scale ( 20$ or sofrom wal mart digital) just as reccomened. dont try to kick it mix it in perfect ratios..good luck
 
Last edited:
My understanding is that the black component is a catylist. Put even a little in the white stuff and the mix will eventually cure.

So, to answer your question, yes, it should cure. Put it in a warm place and check on it in a couple of weeks.
 
Tim,

Will it cure? Hard to say without looking at it.

If this is a fuel tank you are working on (I assume so) and it is still soft enough after 24 hours to remove it with MEK I would remove it now.

You may want to give it some more time and see what happens.

B2 should be firm and not tacky after a few hours or so.

What consistency is it now? Can you describe it?

Are you using a scale?

:eek: CJ
 
Pro-Seal

I mixed it by volume using measuring spoons. 2 1/2 tbsp of white and i should have used 1/4 tbsp of black. However i used 1/4 tsp of black. It is tacky now. You can leave fingerprints in the mix. It has been in a cold workshop all night 50 degrees. And yes it is my first fuel tank. Tim
 
Pro-Seal Problems

I started on my second tank yesterday morning. Mixed the Proseal using a digital kitchen scale, so it's accurate to the nearest gram. My garage is a little under 50 degrees this morning. I can still leave fingerprints in the proseal, and it's very slightly tacky. I think your tank will be fine.
 
Tim,

Give it a couple of days and see what happens. You will likely be okay.

The black stuff is an oxidizer as previously stated and it just needs more exposure.

Tips:

Use a scale
Mix THOROUGHLY

What helped me ALOT was having a fridge nearby. When you have extra material, store it in the fridge. It will DOUBLE the working time in most cases!

I was able to butter up a rib, install and buck the rivets and then use the surplus to coat the rivet heads. Total elapsed time was well over 2 hours!

Besides, when you are done, the adult beverages are not far away!

;) CJ
 
Remove it...

timandmeli said:
I mixed it by volume using measuring spoons. 2 1/2 tbsp of white and i should have used 1/4 tbsp of black. However i used 1/4 tsp of black. It is tacky now. You can leave fingerprints in the mix. It has been in a cold workshop all night 50 degrees. And yes it is my first fuel tank. Tim
Click to expand...

Tim.... do I read this right and you only used a 1/4 TEAspoon instead of a 1/4 TABLEspoon?
If so, this seems to be an error of about 3. You mixed at 30:1 by volume

The couple of data sheets I found don't even have a volume mixing ration, only a weight ratio ot 10:1.

I think your mixing error is too large for a critical item like the fuel tanks.
Do you really know what the final cured properties will be?

Remove it now before it cures (or sort of cures) and redo the joints. The last thing you want in the future is a leaking tank.

gil in Tucson
 
Volume vs. Weight??

I'm confused. Van's and the directions on my cans say either mix by weight or volume in a 10:1 ratio. I sure hope that's correct as I just did my first tank today.
 
Weight it

PaulR said:
I'm confused. Van's and the directions on my cans say either mix by weight or volume in a 10:1 ratio. I sure hope that's correct as I just did my first tank today.
Click to expand...

If the can says so, it's OK.. the PRC data sheet I read only gave a weight ratio.

Because the stuff is sort of thick and gooey, I think it's hard to get an accurate volume measurement... it's not like a liquid ...Are you really 10:1?

Borrow a digital scale that reads down to 1 gram... or buy one at one of the office supply chains.... it's much easier.

gil in Tucson
 
Call Flamemaster

Tim
Call Flamemaster in the a.m. The number is on the can - ask for tech support - That's what I did after my proseal blunder.
I was mixing proseal like a scientist on my 1st tank (by weight). But by the 2nd tank I was mixing by volume and grabbed the wrong spoon. I was mixing batches with 15ml. (white) and 1.5 ml. black or 10:1. But one batch I grabbed the 2.5ml. spoon and mixed a very hot batch. I did not catch this goof until I noticed I had alot of white stuff left in the can and very little black stuff.
I called Flamemaster and explained my big goof. He said- it will be alright. I said- are your sure? That is a pretty big error. He said- it will be alright!!. I said -So what you are basically saying is the this stuff is pretty much idiot proof and I just proved it!!! He said- yep. :D
Anyway I'm glad this happened on the final touch ups.
I still have a sample piece of that batch in the shop. It feels the same as the correctly mixed samples, but alot darker.
If nothing else I hope this makes you feel better you're not alone.
Oh by the way I weighed the volumes on the scale - same thing.
Jim Kirks
 
Last edited:
I have saved all the cups I used in mixing batches for sealing the tanks so far - just to see how they all set up. So far, so good. I have made up a couple of small batches just based on color - and they worked out fine, too.

Interestingly, I used up one "kit" of proseal ... I had been religiously measuring it on a digital scale that I bought ... but I ran out of the black stuff first and still have about a golf ball worth of the white stuff left ... I guess the scale isn't as accurate as I thought!

T.
 
Thomas, same results here!

I was out of black ENTIRELY and just about 100 grams of white left!

I used a scale exclusively also.

As most of you know, the Mil-Spec says that the components are engineered so that you can dump the black totally and entirely into the white and mix it up as one big batch!

Weird stuff, huh?

:) CJ
 
weight vs. Volume

az_gila said:
If the can says so, it's OK.. the PRC data sheet I read only gave a weight ratio.

Because the stuff is sort of thick and gooey, I think it's hard to get an accurate volume measurement... it's not like a liquid ...Are you really 10:1?

Borrow a digital scale that reads down to 1 gram... or buy one at one of the office supply chains.... it's much easier.

gil in Tucson
Click to expand...

Gil,
I'm using syringes and believe that I'm getting a true 10:1. I've been mixing 35ml with 3.5 ml and it seems to be setting up fine. I looked at the can again this morning and it doesn't say weight or volume but Van's directions do say that.
In researching the various proseal methods, I've found alot of people are mixing this way.
I'm keeping all the plastic bowls that I've mixed in so far also to check for curing.
 
By weight - Vans and FlameMaster

PaulR said:
Gil,
I'm using syringes and believe that I'm getting a true 10:1. I've been mixing 35ml with 3.5 ml and it seems to be setting up fine. I looked at the can again this morning and it doesn't say weight or volume but Van's directions do say that.
In researching the various proseal methods, I've found alot of people are mixing this way.
I'm keeping all the plastic bowls that I've mixed in so far also to check for curing.
Click to expand...

Paul.... I looked at a fresh (less than 4 weeks old) can of FlameMaster sealer from Vans yesterday.

The FlameMaster can label says 100:10 by WEIGHT.

There was also a slip of paper from Vans slipped under the shrink wrap holding the two parts together. This paper also said 10:1 by WEIGHT, it added a note that said it might take a while to fully cure...

Neither gave a volume ratio measurement... again, I think weight is an easier, and more accurate, measurement with the thick goopy properties of the sealer.... How do you suck it up into a syringe.... :) If you blob it in from the end, how do you get it air free?

gil in Tucson
 
Last edited:
Mistake

Gil,
I must be losing my mind. I looked again last nite at the can and it certainly does say by weight. I didn't have anything else in mine from Van's. The written directions from Van's do say "weight or volume" though, at least for the 9. I suspect somewhere along the line they changed vendors (Proseal to Flamemaster?) and haven't change the written part.
At any rate, I e-mailed Flamemaster and am awaiting a response.
I do know, though, that the stuff is setting up well. Not from any kind of "scientific" tests, but from touch. I'm hoping they say it will be fine. I hate to order all new parts unless I need to.

As far as the syringes go, I'm using three different sizes. A 5 ml, 40 ml, and a 60ml. I cut then "needle" ends off the two smaller ones even with the 0 ml mark and suck the stuff up into them. Then I empty them, mix and load the big one. The needle hole in the big one works great for putting a bead on the parts.

Thanks for straightening me out.
 
Last edited:
az_gila said:
Paul.... I looked at a fresh (less than 4 weeks old) can of FlameMaster sealer from Vans yesterday.

The FlameMaster can label says 100:10 by WEIGHT.

There was also a slip of paper from Vans slipped under the shrink wrap holding the two parts together. This paper also said 10:1 by WEIGHT, it added a note that said it might take a while to fully cure...

Neither gave a volume ratio measurement... again, I think weight is an easier, and more accurate, measurement with the thick goopy properties of the sealer.... How do you suck it up into a syringe.... :) If you blob it in from the end, how do you get it air free?

gil in Tucson
Click to expand...

Gil, I blob it in from the end. I use a medium sized vet syringe (20cc I think), pull the plunger out and fill it in small amounts with a small popsicle stick. It's not as gloppy as you might think. It goes in the syringe in fairly small globs. I do this until it is about 2/3 - 3/4 full, then use MEK to clean up the syringe. Then I insert the plunger. The space it takes to fully insert the plunger is about as much as I need to get the proseal to the tip. I have not had a problem with air bubbles yet. The blob I usually work with is almost enough to do two ribs, I believe I normally shoot for 60 grams total weight.

The syringe is particulalry handy for placing a bead along edges to filet, for placing a small dab in the hole just before the rivet goes in, and for placing a dab on the finished shop head. Very clean too! After about 60-90 minutes it gets quite difficult to squeeze more out, though.
 
flybill7 said:
Where's a good place to get the syringes? (Man, does that sound bad)

... Bill
Click to expand...

Bill,
I got mine at a Vet supply house here. They have a store online. Jeffers Vet Supply.
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc...FHQUCWAJX1D04&keywords=syringes&cmkw=syringes

Mike,
Thanks for the info. I looked at their website and couldn't find it.

Sounds like I've mixed it with a little too much accelerator. I haven't gotten a response from their technical department yet, but I'm betting that what I've done is okay.
 
TSC

I get them from Tractor Supply Co. There's a store in town. There are locking luers and slip luers. Personally, I think the slip luers are easier to use. They are in the equestrian section.

(The luer is the part the needle would go on. Slip-luers look like just a nozzle on the end. Locking luers are more bulky and have a collar that the needle screws onto.)
 
Last edited:
Pro-seal problem resolved

I decided at last to remove the suspect pro-seal. Heck knowing my luck the first time I put fuel in the tank it would have leaked like a sieve. I did call the company in Ca. and talked to a tech rep. He said given the large mixing error that the longevity of it would come into question. Az gila thanks for your input. I've since bought a digital scale and the next batch i mixed cured like it should overnight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.