AX-O

AX-O

Well Known Member
I currently have a Sensenish prop on my RV-4 (O-320) with the 2600 RPM limit. I did not build that aircraft. The type of flying that I have been doing lately has proved to me that the RPM limit is not acceptable. I purchased a Catto 3-bladded prop for my current fastback project and was thinking about putting that prop on my flying RV.

I know that I can’t do that work because I don’t have the repairman certificate for the flying RV. I also know that I am supposed to go back into Phase 1 for 5 hours. I have read numerous post here regarding the said issue but it seems like people have many different “opinions”. That is why I am requesting information from qualified people on the subject. If you have recently completed this process, I am interested to know what was involved. Thanks for any help or guidance that anyone can provide.

-What paper work do I have to submit and to who?
-Can an A&P sign the work off or does it have to be an IA?
-Do I sign off the Phase 1 test?
-Do I need to re-weigh the aircraft? Or do I update the Weight and Balance info using math?
-What happens if I don’t like the performance on the 3-bladded prop? Do I have to go back to phase 1 with the original prop? And re-do everything?
-Is there anything else I should be concern about?
 
Read your operating limitations!

AX-O said:
I know that I can’t do that work because I don’t have the repairman certificate for the flying RV. I also know that I am supposed to go back into Phase 1 for 5 hours.

-What paper work do I have to submit and to who?
-Can an A&P sign the work off or does it have to be an IA?
-Do I sign off the Phase 1 test?
-Do I need to re-weigh the aircraft? Or do I update the Weight and Balance info using math?
-What happens if I don’t like the performance on the 3-bladded prop? Do I have to go back to phase 1 with the original prop? And re-do everything?
-Is there anything else I should be concern about?
Click to expand...

Everything is in your operating limitations. Paragraph 19 has to do with major changes.
You CAN do the work yourself. The repairman certificate only allows one to perform the annual condition inspection. Anyone can maintain, repair, or modify experimental amateur-built aircraft.
No paperwork is need to be submitted to anyone.
IA is never needed for anything on amateur-built aircraft.
You need to return the aircraft to phase I for testing for a minimum of 5 hours.
You can reweigh the aircraft OR do it by math. Your choice.

This is all assuming that your operating limitations allow this. If the airplane is more than 11 years old, your operating limitations may require a recurrent airworthiness certification.
Feel free to call me if you want to discuss. (Have your op lims in hand.)
972-784-7544

Records show that your RV-4 was certificated in November of 2002, so you should be good to go.
 
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Thanks Mel. I appreciate your quick response and knowledge. The aircraft was built in 2002. Will grab the operating limitations today.
 
@ Mel

A couple of fellas were going to experiment with an Elippse prop on their Formula One ship at the PRS this year - they had to contact the FSDO to get the program started, and I am almost sure they were going to submit paperwork 1st. My guess is that ship was more than 11 years old? In any case, it sure looked it (old, that is), but those fellas are generally more go than show.

I also will be changing props soon - I'm gonna follow Mel's advice.

Carry on!
Mark
 
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Recent datapoint

I just got my two-year RV4 project in the air last month, and had to contact the FSDO about my new Whirlwind GA prop. The FSDO rep asked that I update the original Operating Limits document from 1992 to their current Op Limits paperwork. There was very little difference in the wording of the op limits, but I was told there was a big difference in terms of their inspection requirements following major changes. The old documentation required them to physically inspect major changes, and the new docs pretty much don't require them to inspect anything after the initial signoff.

At the end of the day, i went for the new Op Limits. The prop change put me into a 5-hour Phase I period, after which I just had to do the standard logbook entry. Dead simple, and no inspection required. The FSDO had the paperwork turned around in a day.

Overall, I was very pleased with their handling of the change. And FWIW, the prop works wonderfully.

M
 
Yes...

Exactly what Mel said. I also know folks that change props twice in the same day. I even know a couple of guys that carry a special prop with them for a special purpose (event). :)
 
Once you have "proved" a prop in Phase 1 wouldn't you be able to reinstall it anytime without going phase 1 again? Do W&B, maybe log it if you want and go?
 
paperwork may be required - see op limits

Agree with what Mel said, except for the no paperwork required statement. My operating limitations in that paragraph 19 state that for prop change, I must submit updated 8130-6 form to update FAA registry records if change is to make/model of engine or prop. You'll have to read what your op limits say since older versions might be different.

I'm planning a change from Sensenich FP to Catto sometime hopefully soon, so talked to my local FSDO on this recently and he said I could just do the change, Phase I, log book entries, and mail in the 8130-6 update.
 
tadsargent said:
Sorry Mel, a letter of concurrence IS required with the FAA here as a prop is a major change
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Only if a fixed pitch is changed to or from a controllable propeller.

Again it depends on what YOUR operating limitations say.

Current operating limitations paragraph 19 reads as follows "After incorporating a major change........If the major change includes installing a different type of engine (reciprocating to turbine) or a change of a fixed-pitch from or to a controllable propeller, the owner must fill out a revised Form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA Aircraft Registration Branch.........."
 
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Thanks for the clarification on fp vs cs words regarding 8130-6 update Mel. I don't know when the "current" version came out but my first flight was Oct 2008 and Phase II op limits dated in April 2009 and mine state:

"If the major change includes installing a different make and model of engine or propeller, the owner must fill out a revised Form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA Aircraft Registry."

I'd prefer the version that only requires the paperwork when changing fp to cs, but as has been said, I'll have to do what my op limits say....and since I don't plan to make a lot of prop changes, it's probably not worth my time to ask for new op limits over just this difference.
 
OneCharlieKilo said:
Thanks for the clarification on fp vs cs words regarding 8130-6 update Mel. I don't know when the "current" version came out but my first flight was Oct 2008 and Phase II op limits dated in April 2009 and mine state:

"If the major change includes installing a different make and model of engine or propeller, the owner must fill out a revised Form 8130-6 to update the aircraft's file in the FAA Aircraft Registry."

I'd prefer the version that only requires the paperwork when changing fp to cs, but as has been said, I'll have to do what my op limits say....and since I don't plan to make a lot of prop changes, it's probably not worth my time to ask for new op limits over just this difference.
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You can have your operating limitations amended to the latest version. Any FSDO, MIDO, or DAR with function code 33 can do this for you.
 
That'sw good to know..

Mel said:
You can have your operating limitations amended to the latest version. Any FSDO, MIDO, or DAR with function code 33 can do this for you.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Mel, that is good info.

The Sonex I built had the newer wording, where I could make a prop change without paperwork, as long as it wasn't from FP to CS, or back. The oplims I have on the RV-4 I purchased have the older wording, where a make and model prop change has to be reported and cleared.

Any idea how long it takes once the FSDO has been contacted for the new oplims to be issued?
 
ccsmith51 said:
Thanks, Mel, that is good info.

The Sonex I built had the newer wording, where I could make a prop change without paperwork, as long as it wasn't from FP to CS, or back. The oplims I have on the RV-4 I purchased have the older wording, where a make and model prop change has to be reported and cleared.

Any idea how long it takes once the FSDO has been contacted for the new op-lims to be issued?
Click to expand...

They should be able to do it "on the spot" if they are up on the regs. Not all FSDOs are up on E-AB "stuff". They've got other higher priorities.
 
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