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supik

Well Known Member
According with the latest G3X Touch software updates I would like to configure a Take-OFF Configuration Warning for trims, flaps etc triggered by take off power set.

For example; I want the Trim out of range warning to come up when the following conditions are met:

1. Aircraft on ground (AGL)
2. Airspeed below 55kts
3. RPM above 2350 (warning is active with take off power only)
4. Trim out of Take Off range

Same for flaps, if Flaps > 15

-is this possible?
 
I just did something very similar on mine. The Garmin G3X installation manual describes this pretty well (look at the appendix, I.3 Example 3). For trim:

You have to be in configuration mode.
  • Go into Engine & Airframe
  • Go into your RPM sensor
  • Add a gauge marking:
    • Invisible Range
    • 2350 to 3000 (or whatever your max RPM is)
    • Mode = Set Logic Signal
    • Signal = (pick an unused one)
  • Save and go back to Engine & Airframe
  • Go to your trim position sensor
  • Add a gauge marking:
    • Invisible Range + Alert
    • -100 to (your takeoff trim minus 5)
    • Mode = Require Logic Signal Set
    • Signal = (the signal you used above)
  • Add another gauge marking:
    • Invisible Range + Alert
    • (your takeoff trim plus 5) to 100
    • Mode = Require Logic Signal Set
    • Signal = (the signal you used above)
  • Save and go back to Engine & Airframe
  • Select "Settings" at the top
  • Select "Logic Signals"
  • Select the signal number you used above
  • Set Airspeed Threshold to be "Indicated Airspeed Below 55kt"
  • Set Altitude Threshold to "Height AGL Below 300ft" (Garmin won't let you set that lower than 300)
  • Go back and save everything.

This logic signal will now be "SET" when you are: above 2350 RPM and below 55KIAS and below 300ft AGL". And it will be "CLEAR" when you are outside of one of those parameters. So you can tie other alarms to that signal too, like flaps.

Disclaimer, I haven't tried my setup yet.
 
To add more:

I've got a bunch of these logic signals set up now, and so far they're pretty useful. Here are some nice logic signals that can be used for many purposes:

RPM > 500, airspeed < stall speed
This represents "on the ground, engine running". So you can tie whatever gauge markings that should exist when you're taxiing but not flying to this one. You don't really need to set an altitude threshold, since if you're going less than stall speed, you're either on the ground or soon to be painfully on the ground.

RPM < 500, airspeed < stall speed
This represents "on the ground, engine not running". I inhibit alarms like oil pressure low, fuel pressure low, and fuel flow low in this case, because it's annoying to have CAS messages for them before starting the engine.

One thing I noticed you cannot do (unless I misread the manual) is set a logic signal ONLY based on airspeed or altitude. You have to instead create one like "RPM 0 to 3000" or something else guaranteed to be true all the time, and then go into Settings->Logic Signals and set your desired airspeed or altitude limitation on that signal.
 
Thank you Ryan for sharing. These way of outside of the box way of thinking will give many of us with less imagination something to work with.

If anyone has any clever/useful ideas about alarms settings using logics, it would be great to share.
 
supik said:
According with the latest G3X Touch software updates I would like to configure a Take-OFF Configuration Warning for trims, flaps etc triggered by take off power set.

For example; I want the Trim out of range warning to come up when the following conditions are met:

1. Aircraft on ground (AGL)
2. Airspeed below 55kts
3. RPM above 2350 (warning is active with take off power only)
4. Trim out of Take Off range

Same for flaps, if Flaps > 15

-is this possible?
Click to expand...

This was discussed in this thread:
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=216157&page=11

The setup that I have with a 15second delay below 30kts IAS for the trim and flap config works perfectly. I usually get a config warning as I’m taxiing back to the hangar. Plus I’ll get a config alert on runup or taxi sometimes as well. There’s probably a couple of ways to achieve the desired outcome. I’ll probably tweak mine now that we have more variables with the latest software release.

One thing worth considering with your proposal (if I have interpreted it correctly) to only config alert after you reach 2350RPM on the ground is that in a lightly loaded -10 you’ll only have a few seconds at most to react to your config alert. Usually by the time I get my throttle pushed up to TO power I’m very close to actually taking off.
You may get a CAS in between 2350 and 55kts but it’ll be fleeting and at a bad time.
That may not have prevented my incident which made me implement the TO config CAS.

I also use a similar setup to Ryan’s to keep the CAS to a minimum with the engine running or off on the ground. It works well.
 
Thank you Ryan,

great guide!

Draker said:
I just did something very similar on mine. The Garmin G3X installation manual describes this pretty well (look at the appendix, I.3 Example 3). For trim:

You have to be in configuration mode.
  • Go into Engine & Airframe
  • Go into your RPM sensor
  • Add a gauge marking:
    • Invisible Range
    • 2350 to 3000 (or whatever your max RPM is)
    • Mode = Set Logic Signal
    • Signal = (pick an unused one)
  • Save and go back to Engine & Airframe
  • Go to your trim position sensor
  • Add a gauge marking:
    • Invisible Range + Alert
    • -100 to (your takeoff trim minus 5)
    • Mode = Require Logic Signal Set
    • Signal = (the signal you used above)
  • Add another gauge marking:
    • Invisible Range + Alert
    • (your takeoff trim plus 5) to 100
    • Mode = Require Logic Signal Set
    • Signal = (the signal you used above)
  • Save and go back to Engine & Airframe
  • Select "Settings" at the top
  • Select "Logic Signals"
  • Select the signal number you used above
  • Set Airspeed Threshold to be "Indicated Airspeed Below 55kt"
  • Set Altitude Threshold to "Height AGL Below 300ft" (Garmin won't let you set that lower than 300)
  • Go back and save everything.

This logic signal will now be "SET" when you are: above 2350 RPM and below 55KIAS and below 300ft AGL". And it will be "CLEAR" when you are outside of one of those parameters. So you can tie other alarms to that signal too, like flaps.

Disclaimer, I haven't tried my setup yet.
Click to expand...
 
Good point Richard!

Thinking twice, I don't mind the warning coming up during the mag test. I'll use a lower RPM threshold.

Richard Connell said:
This was discussed in this thread:
https://vansairforce.net/community/showthread.php?t=216157&page=11

The setup that I have with a 15second delay below 30kts IAS for the trim and flap config works perfectly. I usually get a config warning as I’m taxiing back to the hangar. Plus I’ll get a config alert on runup or taxi sometimes as well. There’s probably a couple of ways to achieve the desired outcome. I’ll probably tweak mine now that we have more variables with the latest software release.

One thing worth considering with your proposal (if I have interpreted it correctly) to only config alert after you reach 2350RPM on the ground is that in a lightly loaded -10 you’ll only have a few seconds at most to react to your config alert. Usually by the time I get my throttle pushed up to TO power I’m very close to actually taking off.
You may get a CAS in between 2350 and 55kts but it’ll be fleeting and at a bad time.
That may not have prevented my incident which made me implement the TO config CAS.

I also use a similar setup to Ryan’s to keep the CAS to a minimum with the engine running or off on the ground. It works well.
Click to expand...
 
My idea was to prevent additional erroneous CAS warnings with a blocked pitot or similar emergency..

Draker said:
To add more:
RPM > 500, airspeed < stall speed
This represents "on the ground, engine running". So you can tie whatever gauge markings that should exist when you're taxiing but not flying to this one. You don't really need to set an altitude threshold, since if you're going less than stall speed, you're either on the ground or soon to be painfully on the ground.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Does anyone know if there is AND option for the logic setting to include airspeed and altitude.
This means if my airspeed is withing X and Y value AND altitude is above Z value which require both conditions needs to be met before it is set.
 
Last edited:
Bavafa said:
Does anyone know if there is AND option for the logic setting to include airspeed and altitude.
This means if my airspeed is withing X and Y value AND altitude is above Z value.
Click to expand...

It n my experience this is how it works already.
 
Really next generation stuff here!!!

Thanks to the group for bring this feature to light !!!

A "logic signal" that might be useful would be for oil pressure ranges vs temps and RPM. This would mean the idle low limit would be set higher for cool oil than hot oil. W/O dynamic ranging one has to set limits to avoid annoyance and just read the pressure and do the scan to see if something is amiss.

To document the oil system performance an RPM sweep would needed at various oil temperatures. This could be used to set the logic values. So the area of high time operation time and most value might be cruise. Then, the CAS and/or gauge markings could be adjusted more tightly, and indicate a problem with a lot of warning. Added safety.

Just another item added to my list supporting an upgrade from non-touch to touch. It is getting pretty long.
 
Oil pressure

BillL said:
Thanks to the group for bring this feature to light !!!

A "logic signal" that might be useful would be for oil pressure ranges vs temps and RPM. This would mean the idle low limit would be set higher for cool oil than hot oil. W/O dynamic ranging one has to set limits to avoid annoyance and just read the pressure and do the scan to see if something is amiss.

To document the oil system performance an RPM sweep would needed at various oil temperatures. This could be used to set the logic values. So the area of high time operation time and most value might be cruise. Then, the CAS and/or gauge markings could be adjusted more tightly, and indicate a problem with a lot of warning. Added safety.

Just another item added to my list supporting an upgrade from non-touch to touch. It is getting pretty long.
Click to expand...

I found that oil pressure vs RPM was enough to allow for more tighter “normal” ranges but adding temp would certainly enhance the warning. I have not done any logic using more than one input as it gets a little confusing for my elder programming skills. It’s a really nice feature and good luck.
 
mburch said:
It n my experience this is how it works already.
Click to expand...

I am not sure what is that I have done that is not behaving as expected.
My intended setting is to alert me if I am faster than 95k and above 600 AGL when the flap is between 1 and 33 degree

My invisible setting is for the flap to using logic 1 and between 1-33 degree
My LP 1 is Indicated airspeed above 95k and Altitude is 600 AGL.
This result in a white CAS for Flap which stays on well above 600 AGL.

I also modified the LS and removed the altitude part and only left the speed and the CAS still popped up even though I was not moving and airspeed was zero. I ran of time to play/investigate more and hoping to go back to the hanger tonight to see why.
 
Last edited:
You can use the DEMO MODE and check your settings work as desired before you go flying..

Bavafa said:
I am not sure what is that I have done that is not behaving as expected.
My intended setting is to alert me if I am faster than 95k and above 600 AGL when the flap is between 1 and 33 degree

My invisible setting is for the flap to using logic 1 and between 1-33 degree
My LP 1 is Indicated airspeed above 95k and Altitude is 600 AGL.
This result in a white CAS for Flap which stays on well above 600 AGL.

I also modified the LS and removed the altitude part and only left the speed and the CAS still popped up even though I was not moving and airspeed was zero. I ran of time to play/investigate more and hoping to go back to the hanger tonight to see why.
Click to expand...
 
Flap Logic Signal

Bavafa said:
I am not sure what is that I have done that is not behaving as expected.
My intended setting is to alert me if I am faster than 95k and above 600 AGL when the flap is between 1 and 33 degree

My invisible setting is for the flap to using logic 1 and between 1-33 degree
My LP 1 is Indicated airspeed above 95k and Altitude is 600 AGL.
This result in a white CAS for Flap which stays on well above 600 AGL.

I also modified the LS and removed the altitude part and only left the speed and the CAS still popped up even though I was not moving and airspeed was zero. I ran of time to play/investigate more and hoping to go back to the hanger tonight to see why.
Click to expand...

Mehrdad,

Can you please send a copy of your configuration file to [email protected]. We can load it up on our bench, review the settings you have entered into the system, and offer suggestions on how to improve your installation.

Thanks,

Justin
 
g3xpert said:
Mehrdad,

Can you please send a copy of your configuration file to [email protected]. We can load it up on our bench, review the settings you have entered into the system, and offer suggestions on how to improve your installation.

Thanks,

Justin
Click to expand...
Justin/All,
This looked to be a mistake on my part. I went to the hanger and I realized I had selected "Set Logic Signal" instead of "Required Logic Signal"
Once I changed it, I did not get the CAS on the ground any more and I am hoping that is the issue.
 
over speed alert for flaps

I have my G3X configured to have 3 flap indications (0, 2, 3 which translates to up, half, full). Is there a way to have an alert if I pass Vfe and the flaps aren’t at 0?
 
N411TW said:
I have my G3X configured to have 3 flap indications (0, 2, 3 which translates to up, half, full). Is there a way to have an alert if I pass Vfe and the flaps aren’t at 0?
Click to expand...

Certainly - the first example in Appendix I of the current installation manual (revision AU) covers this in detail.
 
Thanks Matt I was just reading that…would I set the invisible range in my case to .1-3 or something different?
 
Not sure why I am struggling to understand this. With respect to the flap example in Appendix I.

1) Why is it necessary to have the invisible and red range + Alert for flap 2 - 30? It seems redundant.
2) What is the difference between set logic signal and Require logic signal set?
 
Jetmart said:
What is the difference between set logic signal and Require logic signal set?
Click to expand...

Sounds like you may have missed section 30.4.32.27 in the current installation manual (revision AU) which explains this in detail.
 
Logic Signals

Jetmart said:
Not sure why I am struggling to understand this. With respect to the flap example in Appendix I.

1) Why is it necessary to have the invisible and red range + Alert for flap 2 - 30? It seems redundant.
2) What is the difference between set logic signal and Require logic signal set?
Click to expand...

Good Morning,

I will answer these in reverse as the answer to #2 helps explain #1.

#2 - The logic signal is a simple binary value, which can be in one of two states: "set" (1) or "clear" (0), based on the real-time sensor input value of the associated gauge

#1 - In this example, the red range and invisible range modify the same logic signal, but in different ways. The invisible range triggers the logic signal to change to the Set state when the flaps are not in the retracted position (between 2-30 degrees in the example).

The Red Range + Alert (which provides the actual alert this example is meant to create), is only active when the same logic signal is "Set". Said another way, the Red Range + Alert requires the associated logic signal to be "Set", in order for it to be actively applied to the gauge.

Further, an airspeed constraint is added to the logic signal, so that even if flaps are in the extended position, the logic signal will not be Set unless the airspeed constraint (Vfe) is met.

Putting it all together, the red range + Alert is only active when flaps are between 2-30 degrees and IAS > Vfe. If either of those things are not true, the red range and associated alert, are not presented to the pilot. Flaps can be between 2-30 degrees, but if IAS < Vfe, the red range will be inactive and no alert will be issued, because you are in a safe condition. This is why the invisible range is used.

Thanks,

Justin
 
mburch said:
Sounds like you may have missed section 30.4.32.27 in the current installation manual (revision AU) which explains this in detail.
Click to expand...

Thanks Matt, indeed, I did. I went straight to the appendix. I’m usually a manual reader, however, the size of the installation manual was somewhat intimidating.
 
g3xpert said:
Good Morning,

I will answer these in reverse as the answer to #2 helps explain #1.

#2 - The logic signal is a simple binary value, which can be in one of two states: "set" (1) or "clear" (0), based on the real-time sensor input value of the associated gauge

#1 - In this example, the red range and invisible range modify the same logic signal, but in different ways. The invisible range triggers the logic signal to change to the Set state when the flaps are not in the retracted position (between 2-30 degrees in the example).

The Red Range + Alert (which provides the actual alert this example is meant to create), is only active when the same logic signal is "Set". Said another way, the Red Range + Alert requires the associated logic signal to be "Set", in order for it to be actively applied to the gauge.

Further, an airspeed constraint is added to the logic signal, so that even if flaps are in the extended position, the logic signal will not be Set unless the airspeed constraint (Vfe) is met.

Putting it all together, the red range + Alert is only active when flaps are between 2-30 degrees and IAS > Vfe. If either of those things are not true, the red range and associated alert, are not presented to the pilot. Flaps can be between 2-30 degrees, but if IAS < Vfe, the red range will be inactive and no alert will be issued, because you are in a safe condition. This is why the invisible range is used.

Thanks,

Justin
Click to expand...

Thanks, Justin, that clears it up for me.
 
Here is another logic I have set that others might find it useful or logical.

Set a logic for AMP to trigger for the normal range + 3A when most of electric parts turned on (28A)
Set the condition to alert me after 5 minutes accounting for my battery maybe drawing the extra amps.
This is in hopes of ever catching any possible sort circuit or electrical parts that are drawing more than normal.
 
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