[Mark Jackson]

I am using a two part epoxy paint from PTI (this is not a primer debate). It works wonderfully but the painting process is a giant PITA. It takes an hour to get everything set up. I use a tyvek suit and respirator. I have an old pitching backstop frame covered in plastic sheeting to catch the backspray.
I try to paint as much as possible at once because properly cleaning everything takes another hour.

I built a painting table of chicken wire and it was okay but painting one side at a time made the process take a lot longer.

I built a plastic framed paint booth. It worked okay but made the setup that much longer and didn't really help much.

I would use rattle cans of zinc-chromate but they are expensive and toxic and the epoxy seems much tougher.

Is this simply a cost of doing business or are there any easy shortcuts I am missing?

PS. Not priming is not really an option as the plane will be based in Southeast Texas and will spend time near the ocean as well.

 

[Mike H]

Yes, priming is a PITA! I find the prep work of properly scuffing and cleaning the parts prior to primer application to be the worst part. I built a chicken wire paint table as well and spray all of my parts in the driveway. If you have a HVLP gun set-up properly you will not have any, if much overspray. The Akzo 463-12-8 I am using drys fast and I can flip the parts over and coat the opposite side in less than 10 minutes. There are several disposable cup systems available that make clean-up a five minute job, I am using the Dekups system and have used the Sherwin Williams disposable cups as well.

 

[DaleB]

I feel your pain, brother, and it's one reason I have not switched to epoxy primer. Every time I'm about ready to switch I prime a batch of parts with Stewart Eko-Prime and decide to stick with that. Setup and cleanup take about half an hour total, and usually I use no solvents or just a wipe down to get the dried on stuff from the nozzle. No Tyvek suit, and I just wear a dust mask since there are no solvent fumes.

I only have a couple of minor gripes. First, while it dries enough in 10-15 minutes that I can flip the parts and paint the back side, it's not really cured hard for a few days. Second, it's just simply not as tough as epoxy primer. I figure on a little primer touch-up when I finish building a section. On the bright side, I do that with a little air brush and the excess primer goes right back into the can.

As much as I like the idea of rock-hard epoxy primer, so far it has bot been attractive enough to me to overcome the downsides. I wish I could buy a quart or so of PTI or Akzo just to do the cockpit area. If and when I run out of the Eko-Prime I may try Akzo and DeKups... hard to say.

 

[wirejock]

Priming

Yes, priming is a PITA! I find the prep work of properly scuffing and cleaning the parts prior to primer application to be the worst part. I built a chicken wire paint table as well and spray all of my parts in the driveway. If you have a HVLP gun set-up properly you will not have any, if much overspray. The Akzo 463-12-8 I am using drys fast and I can flip the parts over and coat the opposite side in less than 10 minutes. There are several disposable cup systems available that make clean-up a five minute job, I am using the Dekups system and have used the Sherwin Williams disposable cups as well.

I agree. Prep takes longer than anything. I use AeroGreen 4110. It's environmentally friendly.
Same here except I use SW P60G2. Nice thing and bad thing with it is it sets up fast. I can flip parts almost as soon as they are sprayed. Bad thing is it will set up in the nozzle. Minor issue. Just flip the gun and spray out the paint.
I also use disposable cups. 3m. They really speed up the cleanup.

 

[Ironflight]

PS. Not priming is not really an option as the plane will be based in Southeast Texas and will spend time near the ocean as well.

You might have convinced yourself of this, or been convinced by lots of hangar talk on the subject - but I owned airplanes based in the Houston Bay Area for over 30 years and found that primed or unprimed made little difference in corrosion. Yes, I saw some corrosion - but not very much all told - and probably as much bubbling underneath paint/primer as I did on bare metal. Interior corrosion? Hardly any at all.

Had lots of sheet aluminum scraps in my various hangars for decades - none of the Alclad was any the worse for wear without primer.

Just sayin'....

 

[FresnoR]

Try building a wood frame and hang the part(s). You could make a hook that would fit into a rivet hole and then suspend the part. It'd save the step of flipping it.

Obviously, large parts would need a couple of hanging points.

 

[grubbat]

acid etch in can

I was in a hurry (mistake #1) and bought some acid etch primer in a can for some wing ribs. Sprayed them in the morning and hung them out to be sun dried during the day. Came home from work and all that spray can primer was pealing. I guess the metal got too hot in sun. So, stripped the primer and mixed up some epoxy primer and resprayed. Epoxy primer did the trick.

Primer and paint in a spray-can just hasn't worked for me.

 

[Mark Jackson]

Try building a wood frame and hang the part(s). You could make a hook that would fit into a rivet hole and then suspend the part. It'd save the step of flipping it.

Obviously, large parts would need a couple of hanging points.

I have a PVC pipe frame to hang things from. It helps mostly with the smaller stuff. Make hooks from old clothes hangers.

 

[DanH]

What you need is a spray box. Air flows into the box, carrying the overspray away from the operator, and into a catch filter panel. The cleaned air then passes through a fan, and exits the building.

This one is at Continental Mattituck. They spray epoxy primer and topcoats on engine parts every day. Boss says wear a mask, but you may find it isn't really necessary.

For the home shop, build a box on the floor next to a wall, with a chicken wire top surface. Down inside the box, rig a fan to blow out through the wall. Position a few AC filters over the face of the fan.

 

[Bevan]

Down inside the box, rig a fan to blow out through the wall. Position a few AC filters over the face of the fan.

Wouldn't it need to be an "explosion proof" fan?

Bevan

 

[Kyle Boatright]

Don't prime, then use Corrosion X or equivalent inside the finished product.

Alternately, use rattle cans of ZC on the faying surfaces.

There are plenty of ways to skin this cat.

 

[David Paule]

I'm using SEM rattle can primer and it seems to be plenty tough. When needed, I just take the parts outside and shoot them. Ten or fifteen minutes later they're ready to handle.

Some skins are primes with a rattle can ZC primer. Same deal but it's not as tough and takes a bit longer to dry.

My 1955 Cessna 180 is mostly unprimed and there's very little corrosion. I suppose in some parts of the country, yours comes to mind, it would be worth it, though.

Dave

 

[Charles in SC]

I am kind of skitish about using epoxy in a home setup. It does not take but a wiff of two to mess up your lungs as I have been told. To me the only primer that looks correct on an airplane is zinc chromate. I know it has gotten some bad press but I am not convinced that it is any worse than epoxy. Especially for the painter. You can also get zinc "oxide" primer which is suppose to be healthier and as far as I can tell covers better that chromate. Zinc chromate has been used for a long time with great results and it is easy to use. My plane is green inside!

 

[wirejock]

Bildge fan

Wouldn't it need to be an "explosion proof" fan?
Bevan

Yes. One of these works great. Plumb both ends with 4" dryer hose. One end into the bottom of the down draft paint table. One end out the door. Fuse or or wing crate makes a good table. Cover it with screen or in my case a cheapo wood child gate from Wally World.

 

[Aero_Octaveus]

Rattle can epoxy primer

I've been giving this some thought too. My local autobody supply shop sells rattle cans of epoxy primer. I've tested it out and it seems quite good. It at least eliminates the cleanup process. Pot life after mixing is 4 days and time to wait before 2nd coat is 1 hour. Maybe a good solution for smaller areas

 

[BillL]

I think Paul had a valid point, but I want my plane to look better in 50 years than some I have seen.

I got tired of the small paint jobs and began using alodine. I made some dip tanks out of 3" PVC and used rubber plugs in the ends with acid etch, rinse, alodine, rinse tubes. It has worked well enough for the many small fabricated parts. Bob Axsom said what ever you do, be consistent. I don't. I have a mix of alodined and primed parts.

YMMV

 

[Mark Jackson]

I am going to stick with the epoxy. I like the ladle idea, would make the preparation a lot easier. Thanks for the other suggestions. I may look into a paint table but that will have to wait until winter. I have heard that boat engine compartment fans are good to use with those as they are designed to be sparkless.

 

[Mike H]

Many paint booths have been made from wood frames covered in heavy plastic that used regular box fans for ventilation. I built one of these types of booths and used it for almost six months and never had a fire or explosion. To have combustion you need to have a favorable fuel/air ratio which would be very hard achieve in the paint booth.

Not trying to talk anyone into something they are not comfortable with. Your safety is ultimately your responsibility.

 

[60av8tor]

Once you get a system down, I don't believe the prep is too big of a PIA - at least not for the perceived benefit of a quality priming job.

I use these lids to pour from the gallon containers:

And pour into this type of mixing cup:

Let sit for the required :30 (Akzo) and shoot. I've recently begun to use the DeKups system, but honestly, clean up of a normal cup wasn't that big of a deal IMO. I built a down draft table using two of the bilge blowers mentioned, but I don't always use it - probably wouldn't build it if I had to do it again.

Obviously, it does add time to the overall project - I'm also shooting exterior - but once you get the process down, I believe the benefit far outweighs the cost.

 

[DanH]

Wouldn't it need to be an "explosion proof" fan?

That's your call. FWIW, the average cheap box fan has an induction motor, i.e. no brushes, thus no constant sparking. The ignition risk (assuming there was actually a combustible mix present at the time) would only be in the event of a burnout, and most of 'em have built-in fusing to prevent that.

Plug it in and turn it on. Look inside it. See sparks? Don't use it

 

[BigD]

My local paint shop gave me one of these:

Use a drill to stir, no drip pour, easy peasy. I started priming with rattle cans, and when it came time to do interior pieces started using two-part epoxy, and now I wish I'd done the whole plane that way. The only difference between the two is the mix time and cleanup, and with this setup mixing doesn't take too much longer than shaking a can up well. To speed cleanup one of the cup systems is in my future, probably an accuspray gun. For now I'm using the HF 1.8mm gun with disposable containers.

==dave==

 

[MElstien]

How are those paint can covers/mixers wrokng wth AKZO

Hello Dave, How are those paint can lids with mixers doing on the AKZO primer? I am about to pull the trigger on buying 2.

 

[BigD]

Not sure about Akzo, it's a standard sized 1 gallon can with the paint part of 2 part epoxy primer purchased from the local auto paint store. Still works great, and I should get a chance to try out the new accuspray gun any day now.

==dave==