J

jwyatt

Well Known Member
...Good idea, or lousy?

I've been lurking these forums for a month or so now, dreaming for awhile longer. (Was at my first Oshkosh at ~3 months old!) I'm hoping to start a -9A in the fall once I have some garage space :D
I've read on a few builders' logs that they went out for PPL training during the build--is this a sound idea, or would it be more adviseable to get the ticket, fly on it for awhile, and then get into building? I can see pros & cons either way: if one were to train during the build, you'd be paying for lessons & rental (probably looking at $6k+, based on the FBO's I've talked to) just about the time you were laying out the buck$ for the engine & FWF. On the flip side, doing enough rental (at close to $100/hr around here) to keep up the knowledge & currency during a 3-year build, could easily take up a good bit of cash that otherwise could go into the plane. I'm sure there are other considerations that I haven't thought of or listed (insurance/insurability?).

This is, of course, a separate issue from transition training (to me, seems like a must-have) and/or flying one's own first flight.

Didn't find anything like this in the archives, so I'd appreciate hearing perspectives from those who have been-there-done-that.
I did an "intro flight" with a local school a couple weeks ago, and can't wait for my first RV ride someday. I've had a blast reading these forums & following several build logs...feels like a family, and I've not even started yet!

-Joshua // Northfield, MN
 
I'd say there are at least 3 issues here.

1) Cash flow. You touched on that one.

2) I'd get the license before starting the kit. You want to find out if you really, really want to be a pilot before you start the building process. The pilot drop-out rate is pretty significant, and it would be a rotten thing to spend years of time and big bucks building an airplane only to realize that flying isn't for you.

3) Flight training can be fairly rough on an airplane, and I would think you'd be happier in the long run beating up a rental Cessna than making student landings in your new RV...

My overall thought is that if you have the resources, your best bet would be to get your license first and continue flying during the build process so you'll be a better pilot who is ready for the time when your airplane is finished.
 
Ppl

I would highly reccommend that you get your PPL first. Some people have done it during the build process and been successful but they are a minority. You may find that after you have gotten a few hours that flying is not really your cup of tea. I just met a man here in Las Vegas that has no business being in the air. He has already owned a couple of planes ( one an experimental ) and wanted to build an RV. He has still not finished his PPL yet. Thankfully he decided not to build. The type of plane most learn to fly is a very simple, forgiving type plane. A RV is a high performance, complex aircraft and although fairly easy to fly requires a steady progression in training to get to the point that you are safe in it. Which ever way you decide to go is entirely up to you. Noone knows your capabilities better than you. There will be some hurdles to overcome but they are doable. Good luck,, Mike
 
Forgetting about finances and safety for the moment, an even more basic question is: How do you know you want to build an RV? Before I got my PPL, I thought I would want to go on long trips and fly all over the country. Also, I never thought I would like aerobatics (part of getting my license was to help me get over my fear of flying...lol).

As it turns out, I'm bored out of my mind going on long trips. An even bigger surprise is I found that I LOVED aerobatics. Ellen, on the other hand, really likes going on trips and visiting different places. If it were just me, I'd buy a Pitts. Ellen would probably be right at home in a 182 (GREAT camping plane, by the way). Turns out that the RV-7 is gives us a good balance...mildly aerobatic, good payload and fast.

Not trying to encourage/discourage you...just something to consider.
 
Thanks for the responses; it more or less confirmed my thoughts, to start on the PPL as the weather turns warmer this spring and go from there. Definitely more things to think about, I've spent some time in GA planes and practically positive I will enjoy flying, but good to make sure of one's capabilities first... And John's comments about picking the right plane resonate here, too. Some sort of demo ride would be in order.

So now, to find a good CFI... anyone in Minneapolis south suburbs have a good recommendation? :)

-Joshua
 
Joshua,

If I may make an observation, you done good by joining the group, observing for a bit, and then asking the sort of question you did. To know when it's time to ask the advice of more experienced folks, and then be wise enough to heed it, bodes well for your flight training aspirations.

Dave
 
Joshua,

I was one of those who ordered the kit first and started flying after that. My tail section arrived in late Nov 2003. I started my PPL training (Intro flight)on Dec 31,2003 and had my PPL on March 26, 2004. I have always loved planes and flying. I was turning 40 in 2004 and I had put off my PPL long enough. I went and did quickly. I went several times a week and I lucked out by getting a new CFI who was hungry for airtime and money. He has been one of the best CFI's that I have met. He now flys RJ's. The building and the flying feed on each other and keep you motivated throughout the project.
Another thing is insurance. Your insurance costs will be directly related to your flight time and experience in like aircraft. The money that you might save by waiting to use your RV for training might be wasted on insurance.
One thing that doesn't get mentioned is finding a building partner. I lucked out by finding one five houses down from mine. He is a CFI and is very active in the aircraft industry(Gulfstreams are built here in Savannah). The key is having many people to tap for knowledge. People will go out of their way to help somebody building their own plane because they have dreams of building their own plane someday. The best thing about teaming up with somebody is everything costs half as much. Notice, I didn't say saves you alot of money. You'll end up spending probably close to three quarters of what you were going to spend originally but you have a beautiful plane instead of an OK plane. What happens is that you decide to do alot of upgrades because they only cost you half as much. You go from a basic IFR plane to Blue Mountain EFIS One, XM weather, DVD player with dual screens, Air conditioning and so on...
Whatever path you choose, choose it and go forth with gusto! Life is short and you can't get time back! You will love having your PPL. My greatest reward so far was taking my wife to Key West. To fly along the Keys at 1000 feet is just beautiful. But the truly rewarding part was taking my 94 year old grandfather on his second to last flight (He will go for flight in MY RV10!)
But anyway get your PPL and start building in any order but get started today!
 
On the same page

I've been through the same series of processes. I've always been interested in flying, and my wife finally told me to "go ahead" and start flight training last February. I highly recommend learning to fly or at least getting a good way into the training before deciding to build. I turned 40 a few days ago and also thought that getting my medical while I was 39 was a good idea! I'm on the slow plan since I can only fly on Saturdays due to my work schedule. If the weather is bad or my instructor has a seminar to teach (he's a Captain in the CAF, teaches mountain flying, etc.) I don't get to fly that weekend. Had to take a break not long after I started as I was flying on Wednsdays and leaving work early to fly at 3 pm. My boss finally decided that we were too busy to let me leave early. It took nearly 2 months to get one of my instructor's Saturday slots.

Having said that, I can say that I definately LOVE flying! I look forward to my flying days and love the feeling of being up in the air in control of a plane. Even if you can't fly often, just get started. If you have a problem with air sickness, (I did) it can be worked through. I quit getting sick after about 8 hours of flying. That's probably enough to put some people off, but I was determined. Get at least 20 hours under your belt before you even think of building a plane. That's the point where you think either "hey, I can do this and I LIKE it", or "yeah, it's okay, but it's not that much fun", or "this intimidates the h*ll out of me". If you end up thinking either of the latter, you probably shouldn't build.

We (my wife and I) researched a LOT of planes and building techniques during a 1 1/2 year period. We were originally going to build a Zenith 601XL. We decided against it after I had been flying for a few months. The reason? THE MISSION CHANGED. This is something that you may well come up against when you are flight training, or after you get your license. Make sure the plane you will be building or buying fits your mission profile. I realized early on that putzing around at 130 mph max is neat if your out sightseeing, but if you really need to go somewhere, it takes a long time at that speed. Yes, I know you can fly cross country in a 152 or a Cherokee 140, but it takes a while. Why fly a plane that burns 8-8.5 GPH and only goes 120 miles when you can build one for close to the same price, will be new, have higher resale and will go 185 miles on the same fuel? And be more fun to boot! The RV9A fits our mission profile perfectly. Slow if we want to sight see, fast enough to get somewhere without spending all day doing it, docile and stable enough to be able to fly IFR if we have to. I'll be going on to IFR training when I get my PPL. Also, metal is the way to go for me. I already had metal fabrication skills.

Now about money: Here's the deal with us. The goal is NO DEBT. That means we build and fly out of pocket. Flight training costs between $400-500 per month for me if I fly every weekend. That's not a lot. I should be done with that in about 3 more months. Now, take that money that you're used to spending on flight lessons and apply it to insurance and rental fees. You're already used to spending the money for flight training, so the money was already going out anyway. Figure $120 or so for renter's insurance. That leaves about $350-400 for rental. Around here that's about 7.5 hours wet for a 152, or 6 hours in a Cherokee 180 if you buy block time. That's enough to keep you current while you're building but doesn't allow for flying a bunch. Consider flying clubs where you can get in for a set fee, pay a monthly fee, pay for your own fuel, and part of the insurance. We're looking into the local flying club ourselves as the aircraft in the club are well maintained and there's usually something available. The rentals in the area are hard to get reserved usually.

If you are married, have your spouse go for a couple rides with your instructor to make sure they'll be interested also. If you can get them behind the project, it makes it WAY smoother and a lot more fun.

The main thing you need to do at this point is GET FLYING! Get your lessons going and have a bunch of fun! I wish that I had done this years ago.

As far as building, I'd recommend the practice kits that Van's offers first, or having a local EAA chapter show you what's required to build a metal plane. You may find building isn't for you or you may enjoy it! Find that out as cheaply as possible. I built both the practice kits before committing to the empennage. No regrets. We received our empennage kit the second week of January, and I'm enjoying building!

Robert Johnsen
RV9A 91333
 
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