N

nucleus

Well Known Member
I fly a 6A with what I consider to be a very quiet prop, and a great noise canceling headset, and yet I still experience hearing loss after flying my RV.

I thought that using some super-duper Shure earphones under the headset would be the perfect solution, but their non-aviation wiring picks up interference.

I tried foam earplugs but they blocked too much noise. The headset speakers distorting at the high volume needed, and they attenuated too much at the higher frequencies so everything sounded muffled.

Yesterday, I stumbled on what may be the solution:

High-Fidelity Earplugs

Apparently these were developed for rock musicians, they attenuate but preserve the normal frequency balance, here is a blurb from their website:

"ETY?Plugs? are the world?s highest fidelity non-custom earplugs. They reduce most noise to safe levels while preserving the clarity of speech and the richness of music. ETY?Plugs are configured to replicate the natural response of the ear canal so that when sound enters the earplug, it is reproduced unchanged, exactly the same as the ear would hear it, only quieter." -from http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.html

They are cheap on Amazon, and I have a set on the way, which will be flight tested soon. :D I'm thinking the 20db reduction vs 27db for foam should let me still hear the radio but prevent all hearing loss.

By the way, you can screen your own hearing pretty easily with a website like this: http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_frequencycheckhigh.php

When I was young I could hear up to 22K, now it is more like 15K. :(

One other thing, there appears to be a link between sub-optimal zinc status and hearing loss, tinnitus, and vertigo. If you have any of the above, it probably wouldn't hurt to take some zinc picolinate every day. Optimal zinc intake prevents and reduces scar tissue, which I believe is the major mechanism for noise-related hearing loss.

Just wanted to share my own efforts to not have this great hobby of ours damage my hearing.

Yours in health,
 
RV's are tremendously noisier inside than a typical factory spamcan.

Lightspeed Zulu Headsets solve the noise problem for me. I've found no other headset works as well in an RV, not even a Bose... which I got to A-B test the Bose alongside the Zulu in an RV-8.
 
Yeah Zulu's Rock

Yep, Zulu's rock, that is what I use. I still get hearing loss after flights though.

Hans
 
How do you know that you have hearing loss? I have ZERO indication of such a problem from my 6A. What do you use to quantitatively determine hearing loss?
 
Ron Lee said:
How do you know that you have hearing loss? I have ZERO indication of such a problem from my 6A. What do you use to quantitatively determine hearing loss?
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Thanks to my employer, I have years of hearing test data that shows I have a bit of a noise-induced hearing gloss. Nothing that affects my ability to do anything, but since I am closing in rapidly on 40 years in the cockpit (much of it in noisy things like Cubs and canopied GA aircraft), it is measurable.

Thats why when I was looking at a new headset, I took the data from the various models to my Flt Surgeon, and they took a look as well. I ended up with the Halo because it not only was light and allowed a wide brimmed hat to be used (skin cancer is another risk of RV canopies!), but it beat out all of the ANR headsets in the frequencies that do much of the damage.

Paul
 
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I uphostered my RV-6A and it is not noisier than my old Archer.

See above. I use common David Clarks.

Bob Axsom
 
Well, I like my Telex Stratus digital ANRs. Suppose to be good for 50 decibles.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
3 levels of reduction

My solution is to use the comply earphones, which are designed to attenuate noise and provide hearing for persons who are hard of hearing, INSIDE of my noise cancelling headphones. I simply plug these into the headphone jack for the speaker, and only plug in my microphone jack for the headset. The comply speakers are inserted in my ear (I purchased these when considering the in-the-ear project from another thread) and then I put on my headset and turn on its ANR system. I then have 3 levels of noise attenuation. The passive headset reduction, the ANR headset reduction and the passive comply foam plug reduction, but the speaker from the comply foam plugs is not affected by any of the noise reduction! This has greatly increased my ease in hearing radio communication due to the clarity.
 
my painful experience...

...was when we were doing the concert videos for S & M with Metalicca. We knew it was going to be LOUD, so I went to an audiaulogist and got the most fancy custom molded earplugs he had. I think they were for shooting and could be fitted with little snap in pieces for various Db of attenuation.

What I hadn't counted on was that, when wearing headsets, the material CONDUCTS the sound from the headset directly into your ear, especially the little handle piece that is used to pull the plug out. The headset we were using for the video weren't great at sound attenuation (mostly used to hear the mix from the other instruments), so it was way better to use the trusty yellow foam. When I try the yellow EAR foam under the Bose it is too quiet and I can't get enough gain on the radio.

I just had my flight physical and the AME and I discussed the etymotics. I then told him of, Paul's (I think) trick of freezing the yellow jobs and drilling for replacements to the in-ear kind, and we figured if you got some small plastic tubing to keep it from collapsing, you would have the perfect solution for both under headsets and for me at work when things get loud on stage.

I'm going to give it a try and report back.

Jeremy
 
I'm one of the minority that finds David Clark headsets comfortable, even for long trips. My 10-13.4 has done me perfectly for 13 years of flying, so far. My new Lightspeed Zulu is better at attenuating noise though, and has bluetooth, so it's getting more air time. But I use both in the RV, and don't find it "too" noisy with either.
 
Ear plugs saved me!

I encountered a hearing loss trend years ago while I was flying C-130's as Flight Engineer (you guys don't know loud!). During an annual physical about year three of my flying, part of which was a session in the hearing booth, the results showed a reduction in my ability to hear in a certain frequency range when compared to the test from the previous year. When compared to the previous three years, we discovered there was a progressive reduction of hearing ability in that frequency range. The flight surgeon advised me to begin wearing those foam ear plugs under my helmet. I had to turn my radio/interphone volume up to be able to hear any of that, but I got used to it quickly and accepted it as SOP. The following years (a total of 13) showed no further degredation of my hearing at physical time. The foam earplugs worked! The few times I flew without them after that, I was surprised at just how loud it was in that cockpit! In those days there was no fancy ANR like we have now, at least not for us military types.
I plan to use ear plugs while flying my -8, even under my Lightspeeds.
 
nucleus said:
Yep, Zulu's rock, that is what I use. I still get hearing loss after flights though.

Hans
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I agree. I fly a lot of formation. One of the guys has a Mazda Rotary engine. Everyone in the flight without ZULU headsets can hear his engine. I cannot hear his engine in flight but can on the ground.
 
MississippiJim said:
I encountered a hearing loss trend years ago while I was flying C-130's as Flight Engineer (you guys don't know loud!). ...............I plan to use ear plugs while flying my -8, even under my Lightspeeds.
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Good point, Jim. I have 41 years of continuous ag flying in now and have used the foam plugs under my really well-fitted helmet with its lambskin ear covers. I have a slight hearing loss but can hear any conversation clearly.

It pays to use all the protection that's feasible.

Best,
 
Like the look of those ear plugs - will order some, but I will keep the foam ones too as useful round women...

For all you going deaf, look on the bright side, you can turn off the hearing aid whenever you want.
 
Quiet Technologies Halo

Ironflight said:
... I ended up with the Halo because it not only was light and allowed a wide brimmed hat to be used (skin cancer is another risk of RV canopies!), but it beat out all of the ANR headsets in the frequencies that do much of the damage.

Paul
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I'm with Paul on this one. I've used David Clark, Bose, Telex, Lightspeed, and I REALLY, REALLY like the Quiet Technologies Halo headset.

All you guys talking about the yellow foam inserts being used in conjunction with the other headsets, take a look at the Halo headset. It has a yellow foam earplug inserted into the ear canal with a little yellow audio tube in the middle. A friend told me he only used electronic noise cancelling headsets. I told him you don't need noise cancelling headsets if you block the noise in the first place! :eek:

Did I say I REALLY, REALLY like my Halo headsets? The wife likes them, too! And that's a real plus. :D
 
halo with custom ear pieces

I use standard foam plugs with my Halo and they work fine for me. At my day job I have a set of custom made silicon ear plugs for when I'm in a high noise environment. These plugs realy keep everything out. I know that they can combine the custom plugs with the halo tubes which I'm sure would provide the best hearing protection possible. The custom plugs take some getting used to though. At work the custom plugs work so well that I have to take one out to hear verbal input.
 
Like a lot of military pilots, I have a small amount of hearing attenuation as well as mild tinnitus (oh, the joys of growing older).

I have older Lightspeed ANR headsets, and they seem to work fine for me, even after long flights I don't feel like it's hard to hear folks in normal conversation. If I were to do it over today, I would seriously consider the MGL radio in lieu of the intercom and use less expensive headsets (no batteries to replace and an extra comm for the same price as 2x ANR + 1x intercom).
 
Vetterman Mufflers

Just installed my new vetterman mufflers on the rv 9a and wow what a difference in the noise level and more heat this was a short flight, i will be able to tell more this week on my 4 hour weekly trip
 
Bose A20

I know their Expensive. I just upgraded from the X. These are the best headset I have ever flown with. You have to try them.
 
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nucleus said:
One other thing, there appears to be a link between sub-optimal zinc status and hearing loss, tinnitus, and vertigo. If you have any of the above, it probably wouldn't hurt to take some zinc picolinate every day. Optimal zinc intake prevents and reduces scar tissue, which I believe is the major mechanism for noise-related hearing loss.
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I was starting to have symptoms of tinnitus a while back and it's now gone. My wife and I have been eating a diet full of raw greens, and lots of fruits and veggies, along with juicing every day. I can tell if my diet starts slipping, the symptoms of tinnitus start cropping up again. But ALSO, I've been taking some zinc and vitamin E supplements every day. So I couldn't tell you if it's the supplements or our diet, or both, but it works. I heard a while back that the combination of zinc and vitamin E is also very good for the male libido. :D :D :D (no further comment, but lots of smiles!)

Any further comments, Dr. Hans?
 
Two options I have used in military aviation that can work in GA

Army turbine helicopters are incredibly loud, so we have been using one of two different devices to control the level of noise. First, I have used CEP earplugs. They are ear plugs with transducers inside the foam that are connected to our flight helmet. I have also used them on my motorcycle intercom and my friends have had their David Clark headsets modified to use them There is a small connector installed on the headset. You can review the product here:

http://www.cep-usa.com/index.htm

I believe they will modify the headset for $15.00 but don't quote me on that.

Another option, and what I am using now, is custom earplugs by Westone. The custom fit earplug is made by Westone so the transducer from the CEP fits inside. They are incredibly quiet. Westone's web site is here:

http://www.westone.com/home

The Westone option requires a trip to an audiologist or hearing aid store. I think some Costcos have a hearing aid store inside. They make a mold of each ear canel. You ship those to Westone and they make the custom ear plugs. After they get you mold, they can make custom ear plugs for a variety of uses. For example, just ear plugs for noise reduction like shooting or working in the shop, for you iPod or for a unique situation at work.

Both options have worked well for me, although the Westone is a lot quieter. After 36 years of Army helicopters my hearing has been damaged, but it would be a lot worse without CEP and Westone. Unfortunately for me they were not developed for the first 20 years of of my flying job.
 
Aircraft engines, rock 'n roll concerts, the 60 cycle droan of a Navy destroyer at sea, 5" guns going off over my head, listening to #1 wife for 10 years, ;).

Zulu's for me! Bluetooth works great! ;)
 
Geico266 said:
Aircraft engines, rock 'n roll concerts, the 60 cycle droan of a Navy destroyer at sea, 5" guns going off over my head, listening to #1 wife for 10 years, ;).

Zulu's for me! Bluetooth works great! ;)
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I know what you mean. The wife hits certain frequencies that can make the dog howl.

If others are using standard PNR headsets take a look at the technology classified as the "Hocks Noise Braker? filter". It beats the yellow foam if you need to insert that under your standard PNR headset.
 
Ever wonder why the first frequency that men lose is the same frequency of a woman voice? Something to think about :rolleyes:
 
I've always just used standard David Clark PNR headsets while flying and don't have any hearing loss that cannot be attributed to the usual aging concerns.

I've been exposed to very high sound levels since I was 15 and started working on cars and engines: engines on dynos, die grinders porting heads, angle grinders from welding, flow benches, lathes, milling machines, hammers, air drills, compressors, rivet guns, driving gutted race cars with solid mounted engines and open exhausts etc. Since I was 15 though, I ALWAYS wore hearing protection. Most of my friends in the same sorts of work have significant hearing loss now because they were very lax about hearing protection.

I even wear protection using my electric lawn mower, weed wacker and riding my Gixxer (stock exhaust but the wind noise is the killer).

My RV has extensive sound proofing and the turbo takes a lot of racket out of the exhaust note plus the prop is only turning a little over 2000 in cruise so it is noticeably quieter than the Lycoming powered RVs I've flown in.

Many people may attribute hearing loss to mainly flying when in fact everyday noise sources are contributing to it as well. Certainly flying in noisy aircraft can cause damage without protection- C130s, B25s etc. are nasty for sure.
 
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