T

tdhanson

Well Known Member
I got a call from my brother last night. Seems 15 minutes earlier he was flying in the pattern and heard a scream on the radio. The guy flying right behind him with his girlfriend along went down. It was a Rans S6 (similar to a kitfox). I had seen this plane a month or so ago when I went out to fly my brother's Rans S14. Before I flew we went to a few of the other hangars and looked at a nice S6, and unfinished S7, a guy with some ultralights and a Cessna 150 taildragger. This guy had his S6 out and was bolting on a muffler to the Rotax 582. The quality and age of the plane wasn?t as nice as the other nicer one in the other hangar. I didn't preflight other than a cursory glance that it seemed all together but was undergoing maintenance. I don't know the details so I won't speculate.


The radio said something about witnesses saying it was a stall. However, I?ll wait to hear. I don't know if he had a BRS.


http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-news-planedown06142010,0,3086090.story

http://www.kcra.com/news/23900389/detail.html



Of course my wife reads about every plane crash and this one hit closer to home when I told her my brother was out there flying right in front of this guy.


I'm still renting right now but want to build or buy a plane. However this brings up what I should have in place just in case the catastrophic event no one wants to happen does.

What Life Insurance should one have? Where to get it? Do many policies exclude flying?

What other affairs to put in order: Let spouse know of all accounts and be joint or beneficiary? Will or similar document? I'm young enough that such things aren't a pressing reality but old enough now that perhaps I should. BTW, the guy who crashed was about my age... mid 40's.

She hasn't enjoyed flying with me much in the past and now she's even more nervous even for me.

I'm not afraid of the things I can't control. I know I've got the training and am building on experience. I try not to press the envelope to build on the experience recklessly. I am renting from a reputable college aviation program. I am thorough on my pre-flight planning as well as am in good shape medically. So the only things I can't control are external factors.

I'm trying to build a checklst of things I can say are taken care of in the event of such a unforseen event to me. I know it will be of small comfort to her but it's better than saying I haven't cared enough to put any thought into.

Thanks in advance for any comments.
 
On life insurance...most normal policies have an exclusion for pilots meaning they won't pay...Some don't but make sure you double check the fine print and talk to someone that is familiar with pilot life insurance.....
 
insurance

I've always followed the rule of thumb to carry 8-10X your annual income in life insurance. The thought being that, invested long term, the insurance proceeds should generate about as much as your salary in interest.

Yes - most life policies will decline you coverage if you are a pilot. Especially so if you fly experimental aircraft, gliders, etc. Won't get into whether this is good underwriting or not, just know that most do.

Google pilot life insurance and chat with an agent that if good at placing life policies for pilots. It's not much more expensive.

Be careful and don't do nuthin stupid - ;) and you should be OK.
 
My advice is to always have your affairs in order if you fly.

My life insurance will not pay if I get killed while flying an experimental, that is why I also have some money tucked away in mutual funds and savings bonds which will be provided to the survivor regardless of how I die.
 
Pilot Insurance Co.

I get my insurance through this company through Sky Smith Insurance in IA. Sky is a pilot and knows what we need. He occasionally contributes to the VAF forums. They know I am a pilot of an experimental airplane and the policy has no exclusions. I carry 10x my annual income. I recommend them.

Bill Near
 
Life Insurance

As a low time pilot, when I fessed up, the insurance rate quotes went up. Then I found a company that was specializing in life insurance for pilots. The rates were the same as the other companies, prior to me telling them about flying.

The people I worked with were fair, and I am now covered with an appropriate amount of life insurance for my family. If you are interested in a reference, send me a pm. Not trying to give any advertising to a company that doesn't have a banner ad on this site.

Anyway, they also sent me an email recently that said new policy rates would be going up for student pilots and anyone with less then 100 hours PIC. So if you fall into those categories, you may want to take action soon.
 
My wife and I just went through the process...

...of renewing both our wills, since we both have businesses and re-married.

I have life insurance that covers me even flying ag!! There's enough to clear the home mortgage and leave my kids some.

The wills take care of liquidating my business and the RV-10.

Death is a given...we just don't know when, so it's only prudent to think of the ones who remain behind,

Best,
 
Look for an indepnedant agent

I bought life insurance through a local independent insurance agent. I told him up front that I wanted a policy without an aviation exclusion, including for operation of experimental aircraft. He shopped the market and was able to find an underwriter that offered very good rates with no aviation exclusions at all. All I had to do was supply them with a summary of my flying hours.
 
As a life insurance broker I can tell you that there are quite a few quality carriers that will not preclude private pilots from standard rates (i.e. non-rated) for life insurance coverage. A few will even offer preferred rates. The criterion is based primarily on the age of the insured, their experience (total hours flown) and average hours flown each year. Seek out an experienced agent/broker to discuss these issues with you so that you can understand how your individual situation will work.

The amount of coverage that is appropriate for you to purchase should be based on your individual circumstances and objectives. In my 30+ years of experience I have never seen the ?real-world? needs of surviving family members adequately served by "rule of thumb" planning. We wouldn't think of flight planning by the rule of thumb method, would we? How about financial planning or retirement planning? It is true that some do "plan" these important matters by the "Kentucky Windage" method but it usually doesn't work out very well.

For some people the process of life insurance planning (i.e. working through the objectives and numbers) is unpleasant because, in my opinion, it requires people to confront their own mortality. Attorneys have the same problem getting people to do their wills and estate plans...it seems some people would rather take a beating than actually think through and make the appropriate decisions and arrangements. Every person gets to make their own call on how (or if) they approach this, but none of us should expect our goals to be achieved when we die unless we actually are willing to do proper planning.

One simple example of how you can go wrong. If you have 10 times your annual salary in life insurance when you die your survivors would have to earn an annual return of 10% on the proceeds to equal your salary. Remember, this should be an "income producing" investment, not some potentially high return (i.e. high risk) stock or venture. I would challenge someone to find such an investment paying a 10% return in the current investment environment. Not only this, but we have not taken inflation into consideration...the value of a dollar will not be the same tomorrow as it is today, and so more dollars will be required to maintain the same purchasing power. Will your surviving spouse continue (or begin) to work? How much can they earn relative to the lifestyle you want them to have? Are there dependent children? College? Don't forget your surviving spouse will probably want to retire at some point...will there be resources for that?

There are no right or wrong answers to these questions. Each family will weigh and balance these and other issues based on their circumstances, goals and objectives. As it should be! That is why listening to what everyone else thinks (or does) may be interesting, but it really doesn't help YOU in determining what YOU and YOUR FAMILY want to achieve.

Finally, I will trot out the very old clich? here because it fits..."people don't plan to fail, they fail to plan". Just remember one more thing when planning - garbage in, garbage out!
 
My List

Really sorry to hear about the accident -- any accident. Good reminder to keep our business in order though. Here's my list:

I keep a comprehensive list of all checking and savings accounts, loans, retirement accounts, and insurance policies with numbers and contact info -- wife and kids (adults) know where this information is kept.

Updated wills on file with our lawyer (on the list).

Short-term savings account -- enough to cover six months of "must pay" bills to buy time in case something bad happens

Disability insurance to cover loss of my income

Mixture of life insurance policies to allow my wife to stay in our home and have a reasonable lifestyle if something happens to me -- probably not quite enough, but sufficient -- I checked to be sure there were no aviation riders when I bought the policies -- wasn't hard to find good policies at decent rates
 
Get a Will

By all means, whatever you do, get a will. There are a few people that don't need a will (very few), but if you have kids (especially kids by a prior marriage) or real estate you need one for sure. I urge you in the strongest possible terms not to put this off, whether you fly or not.

Many people think they have an answer with some scheme to avoid probate, and maybe they do, but I really do recommend that you see a lawyer about a will as soon as possible.
 
With a directive!

mikegraycmg said:
By all means, whatever you do, get a will. There are a few people that don't need a will (very few), but if you have kids (especially kids by a prior marriage) or real estate you need one for sure. I urge you in the strongest possible terms not to put this off, whether you fly or not.

Many people think they have an answer with some scheme to avoid probate, and maybe they do, but I really do recommend that you see a lawyer about a will as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Very sound advice. Then add a directive as part of your Will.
With a directive, you can make changes as your life changes without having to change your Will, which is very expensive and has to be renotorized etc... The Will takes care of all of the legal stuff, division of assets, etc... but you can use a directive to designate how things get dispersed, update your assets as they change, etc... Aircraft are especially difficult to get rid of at fair value for most estates. Someone has to store them, pay for rent, market them, etc... My airplanes are left to two trusted neighbors to deal with , each gets a fee. Of course, they volunteered, as your friends will too, right up until they have to store them, put them back in annual for a sale, or something else....Build some sort of compensation for them so your heirs, who probably know nothing about airplanes, dont have to deal with them. They will have enough to deal with already.
 
My life insurance is through Mutual of Omaha. The only exclusion is that it does not pay in the event I die in an ultralight (part 103). I have had this policy for about 10 years now, so things may have changed in terms of new policies. The premium is reasonable, in my opinion.

You need to get a will, pronto. Your wife, too. You are too old not to have one. I'd worry about that before the life insurance.
 
This is a case where a lawyer can be useful. Since my wife and I both fly together, we had to set up an estate plan and a guardianship arrangement for our child just in case...
If we both die in a crash, our child will be well cared for and there will be funding for her future care and education. We have outlined with her potential guardians how we want her raised...
The other thing is that my wife is well aware of my feelings about rediculous lawsuits. She knows that if she were to file an frivolous lawsuit as a result of my death, I would most likely come back and haunt her...
 
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