[whifof100ll]

Hi All,

My friends RV-7 I regularly fly has failed a magneto (fairly new slick mag).

Unfortunately the airplane will not start on the other mag since it has no impulse coupling. Have narrowed selection down to Pmag or Lightspeed.

We want to replace this mag with EI and keep the other mag. Since the plane is not at it's home AP, time and tools are in short supply. We don't want to invest more money in mags.

I like the easy installation of the Pmag, especially in this situation but worried a little about reliability after reading about Mark C's expert glider landing. I'm hoping they have found the causal mechanism of this failure and ECO'd the product. Any news here? Any other failures?

I've not heard anything but good about the later Lightspeed models, but even the hall effect model looks way harder to install. I think if we were to go this route, I would prefer to borrow an impulse mag to get the plane back to it's home airport and then deal with the install, probably going direct crank sensor.

Is the hall effect sensor a reliability concern?

Anybody with good/bad experiences , news or advice on these two choices?

Regards,
Dale Lambert
RV-6 finishing kit
RV-7 maintenace boy and pilot.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Search the Archives

This horse had been beat to death, try the archives and search function. You will hear all kinds of opinions and experience and descriptions that distinguish both. It's really a personal choice based on your prejudice, judgment, configuration, taste and design goals. When making a decision make a matrix with the things that matter to you.

Clearly installation is one thing you are interested in. LS more difficult? Yea sure it has separate brain box, coils and trigger (hall effect or flywheel). That is true but personally its not a big deal to me. I like it better because it is separate, not all crammed into one unit. Clearly there is going to be a tad compromise with the all in one deal. Also I like keeping the brain box on the cool not vibrating side of the firewall. But that is my prejuduce.

Reliability? Maturity? (Lightspeed is further along it's evolution than the newer E-mag), Performance? (Lightspeed Plasma III probably has the edge over the single coil E-mag but would you notice the diff?), Features (self powered [E-mag] or options like rpm, map and cockpit timing [LS]). What do YOU care about?

There is NO perfect. People are happy with both and both companies will likely be around for a long time supporting the product. Customer service is there, all be it Klaus is known to be grumpy; I've never had an issue talking to him the few times on the phone. He definitely will not kiss your derriere or hold your hand. He is German and has ways of doing customer service. Frankly Van had the same reputation many years ago when he did direct customer care more, before he hired all the folks. Either way they are competent and know what they are talking about, which I valve more than happy talk.

Lots of info out there. Write a check, you can't go wrong, especially since you are retaining one of your mags. Keep in mind its not recommended to mix and match EI's. Not that it won't work, just that you will not get the max benefit of matching EI's. If that is in your thinking down the road when mag #2 dies, keep that in mind.

PS: Either LS or E-mag will start the engine. If you go with a hall effect (LS) or E-mag you will need a new gear. The impulse gear will not work. If you go with LS you will need to buy auto spark plug adapters. The E-mag has the option of aircraft or auto plugs, most people are happy with auto plugs. LS does not offer aircraft plug option (but they can do it), because the super high voltages are not very kind on the spring connection at the bottom of am aircraft plugs housing. There are arching issues. The auto silicone boot and snap on connection seems to work OK for the high energy ignition. However I do think aviation plugs are better than auto, better QC, more massive (better heat dispersion) and durable, lasting up to 2000 hours. However as cheap as auto plugs are you can just chuck them and buy new ones.

 

[whifof100ll]

Dead Horse

This horse had been beat to death, try the archives and search function. You will hear all kinds of opinions and experience and descriptions that distinguish both.


Thanks gmc. I did an archive search and agree that the horse has been justifiably beat to death, but what I don't see in the archives specifically is :

1.) follow on information from Mark C's dual Pmag failure. What was the final diagnosis.

2.) Any other reliability incidents involving Lightspeed or Pmag not attributed to installation error?

Regards,
Dale

 

[Walt]

I'm a die hard LSI fan...

reliability and performance are on the top of my list and LSI has the clear advantage in both cases.

Don't know where the plane is located but I have a impulse mag sitting on the bench that I'm not using since installing the 2nd LSI and would be willing to lend it to you to get the plane home. We're at Northwest Regional (52F).
Walt

 

[whifof100ll]

reliability and performance are on the top of my list and LSI has the clear advantage in both cases.

Don't know where the plane is located but I have a impulse mag sitting on the bench that I'm not using since installing the 2nd LSI and would be willing to lend it to you to get the plane home. We're at Northwest Regional (52F).
Walt

Boy Walt,

This is certianly demonstrates that you can't find better people than those on this site.

Will keep that in mind, but I think we have a line on another one close by. The plane is at Hammond Louisiana, HDC.

Thanks for your opinion and the offer.

Regards,
Dale

 

[erich weaver]

Regarding "Mark C's dual Pmag failure", I dont believe it was ever firmly established that it was a failure of the ignition system, and certainly no one ever said DUAL failure. My recollection was that left and right ignitions were not ever isolated during the event to see if conditions improved.

I called emagair maybe amonth ago to see what the outcome of their testing was with Mark's system. Brad told me that they had run the system on their test bed for a bunch of hours and were unable to ever duplicate the problem.

It doesnt look like we will ever get to the bottom of this one.

regards

erich

 

[RV7Guy]

Pmags

Mark is a local flying buddy of mine. There was an internal problem with the Pmag that caused problems. Admitedly, he did not have a plan and didn't systematically attempt to isolate the problem. Had he, he would have found the other mag working fine and could have safely continued. He (and other users of Pmags) now have a plan.

I have 2 Pmags on my ECI IO360 and just crested 200 hours with no issues.I know several others that have had no problems.

Another friend with a Lightspeed system had a problem that created two declared emergencies. This problem was completely vexing to him. After going through the system wire by wire the problem was located.

As George noted, there is no perfect system. They all work, they all have their problems.

I'd go with Pmags if doing it again.

 

[flyeyes]

Hi All,

Have narrowed selection down to Pmag or Lightspeed.

Anybody with good/bad experiences , news or advice on these two choices?

Regards,
Dale Lambert
RV-6 finishing kit
RV-7 maintenace boy and pilot.

I am in the unique (I think) position of having had both system (P-mag and Plasma III) on my RV-8.

I was a very early adopter of the e/p-mag and suffered through some of the growing pains. Last summer, I was probably the first one to experience the problem with one of the coils suddenly shuttting down. This was fixed by a firmware update, but I got frustrated (had to cancel a trip and didn't want to miss OSH) so I had Klaus overnight a Plasma III to me.

The airplane runs and starts well on either system, and both make noticeably more power than the Bendix magneto.

The installation is far quicker and easier with the Pmag. Hands down, no question. I was meticulous in following Klaus' instructions, which means the brain box goes on the cool side of the firewall. Putting the box on the cool side of the firewall means making a big hole, because he insists than you don't cut into his pre-made harness, and there is a db15 connector that has to go through the hole. The supplied brackets for the coils were not designed for fuel-injected engines, so new ones have to be designed and fabricated. It was very helpful looking at Dan C's site as well as some others to avoid potential "gotchas." I know than many people ignore the instructions and put the box in front of the firewall and/or cut the harness with good results, but like I said, I was meticulous.

With the Pmag, you can be up and running in a couple of hours, no problem.

Starting is easy with either system, but I'd give the edge to the Pmag because of the "run time start delay" which is a programmable delay before the coils are activated after the starter begins turning. This allows you to clear any vapors out of the airbox and avoid that little explosion. I get around this on the LSI by waiting three blades to throw the switch "on."

Both systems are easy to time, but Klaus recommends checking with an inductive timing light, which it a PITA.

Performance is good with both systems, although I'd give a slight edge to the Pmag on my airplane. This is subjective, and I made other simultaneous changes, but I was slightly faster and smoother on the Pmag than the LSI.

Customer service is good with both systems. Klaus is crusty and opinionated, but ultimately stands up and his stuff works reliably. Brad and Tom at Emag have been outstanding, but I had more than my share of problems with early units. They cheerfully and quickly turned my unit around in the shop, and refunded me cheerfully when I bailed on them. Right now, I have a brand new Pmag on my shelf to replace the impulse magneto next time I have the cowl off for an extended time. I think they have everything worked out now, and I am comfortable putting it back on the plane.


when I have both systems installed, I plan to do some comparative performance testing (this summer)

 

[gmcjetpilot]

That is why we have TWO magnetos / ignitions

Any other reliability incidents involving Lightspeed or Pmag not attributed to installation error? Regards, Dale

Yes I can say with out fear of debate, stuff happens.

The reason is it's man made, mechanical and a guy named Murphy is hanging around.

I have heard of problems with both. The big thing I disliked with the early E/P-mag is the wiring connectors on the unit. It is computer like not engine compartment like. I think they have improved that. Same with alternators. Many problems is from the wiring / plug and vibration. Its part installation but also design.

The Light speed is up to Lightspeed Plasma III. Do the math, its been improved 3 or 4 times. I have heard of early lightspeeds having problems (don't recall what) after 5 or 6 years of perfect operations. One user wrote (one of Van's guys), he started having some intermittent problem and did not want to deal with it, so he just pulled it out and put the old mag in. I have heard of wires coming off the coil (again wiring issues). Like the E-mag the wire on the coil is a fast-on connector. Guys have now started pay more attention to making sure the wires stay on don't fail from fatigue.

Wiring can fail. In some way it is part of the design, like the style of connectors E-mag uses or Lightspeed uses on the coil. I would like to see more robust Mil-Spec connectors, but those are expensive and the "computer/auto" connectors they use are pretty good if you install with care.

Nothing is perfect. Magnetos FAIL all the time, and that is why they have TWO.

EI are not going to be perfect, but in theory they should be more reliable than a magneto. Electronics are very reliable but they have MTBF, mean time between failure, like everything. Crankshafts can fail, but its rare.

I know you want a clear winner, but like I said its more about cost and the fit, form and function that turns you on, not quality or reliability.