[lr172]

True. That said, Ross:
answers the phone(!)
responds to email promptly
replies to VAF posts clearly and civilly.

As a tech writer, I appreciate the quality of SDS documentation.

+1

Ross definitely could use some marketing assistance for his website, but his product documentation is excellent and deep. He and barry also answer the phone and provide top notch service and support.

 

[bertschb]

I still can’t figure out why anyone buys pmags.

Would you purchase a traditional mag over a P-Mag? If so, why?

 

[lr172]

Would you purchase a traditional mag over a P-Mag? If so, why?

I like ei and am a fabricator by heart , so built my own. I believe the sds is a far superior product and very reliable. The cpi 2 has built in batt management, so just as elec fault tolerant as pmag. Price is substantially less and really substantially less when you consider the new $1000 every time you send it in policy. While carls seems to work forever, it seems that is quite far from universal. NO ONE sends in there sds system; it just works. The ability to add a LOP switch is invaluable imo. I have that on mine. Dead simple and can even build the tables so that if you forget, it will still retard timing at high power.

If a user can’t deal with the more challenging installation requirements of sds, I would recommend a surefly. So far seems much more reliable than pmags.

I understand you doylike the sds site, but you can just pick up the phone and call them. They will explain everything for you and help you make decision.

I still have a mag on my 6. Nothing wrong with that. I still get variable timing from my ei, with no need to deal with elec fault tolerance.

 

[lr172]

I like ei and am a fabricator by heart , so built my own. I believe the sds is a far superior product and very reliable. The cpi 2 has built in batt management, so just as elec fault tolerant as pmag. Price is substantially less and really substantially less when you consider the new $1000 every time you send it in policy. While carls seems to work forever, it seems that is quite far from universal. NO ONE sends in there sds system; it just works. The ability to add a LOP switch is invaluable imo. I have that on mine. Dead simple and can even build the tables so that if you forget, it will still retard timing at high power.

If a user can’t deal with the more challenging installation requirements of sds, I would recommend a surefly. So far seems much more reliable than pmags.

I understand you doylike the sds site, but you can just pick up the phone and call them. They will explain everything for you and help you make decision.

I still have a mag on my 6. Nothing wrong with that. I still get variable timing from my ei, with no need to deal with elec fault tolerance.

Sad as it is, it is now cheaper to maintain a mag over its life than a pmag. I remember everyone saying the pmag will be cheaper in the end as I don’t need the 500 hour iran. Experience posted here would indicate they go back more often than mags. Maybe not a big deal when brad was around, but those days are gone.

 

[Notso]

Sad as it is, it is now cheaper to maintain a mag over its life than a pmag. I remember everyone saying the pmag will be cheaper in the end as I don’t need the 500 hour iran. Experience posted here would indicate they go back more often than mags. Maybe not a big deal when brad was around, but those days are gone.

Hmmm, that's disappointing. I just installed 2x PMags (Full kit from VAN's) a few weeks ago on my RV-8 specifically to get around the traditional Mag's 500 IRAN. I fly a LOT of hrs per year and 500 hrs was going to happen every 2.5-3 years for me at this rate. I'm gonna be pissed if these become troublesome. I guess I'll keep my old mag's around to swap out in the event the PMags go down for MX.

So what's the issue??? Has quality control gone down lately with the switch to Hartzell? Is the overall product new that these issues are just now cropping up? I thought PMags have been around for a while, so I would have thought the later was the issue.

 

[Carl Froehlich]

An easy “is my pMag up to date” gouge sheet will soon be available. Here is a sneak peak. A sheet for six cylinder pMags is also in the works.

Just like Van’s and Lycoming service bulletins pMag updates come along. I just verified the two six cylinder pMags I have on the shelf have the latest firmware and hardware updates. Engine hanging coming soon (after a two year delay…).

700 hrs on my current ride’s dual pMags - and they have been flawless. An early version of the 114 series has been running on my first build for 22 years and it just rolled 1800 hours or so. Last year one got sent in for the hardware update. I suggest 22 years of service is not bad….

Carl

 

[Toobuilder]

You are missing the total redesign of your electrial power distribution system. I suggest that just throwing in another backup battery or backup alternator are not acceptable.

Carl

If you want to know why these threads always turn into a “mine’s better than yours” thing is because of hyperbole like “total redesign of the electrical power distribution system”. When I was running one CPI and one magneto on the Rocket, my entire design comprised of a single wire from the battery to a switch, to the CPI. If I had to shut down the entire electrical system on the ship, I flip the switch and battery takes me home. That was PLENTY of redundancy for my mission. I recognize that some people are not trained in engineering risk management and the fact that something MIGHT fail is enough to drive people to try to engineer all possible risk out of the airplane.

My Pitts will have a single total loss battery, a single CPI brain box firing two coils, and a single “OFF/ON/START” toggle switch. That’s the extent of the electrical system. Not everyone wants or needs a “manned Mars mission” level of electrical architecture, no matter how many Space Shuttle esq RV’s win Gold Lindy’s at Osh.

 

[Kyle Boatright]

So what's the issue??? Has quality control gone down lately with the switch to Hartzell? Is the overall product new that these issues are just now cropping up? I thought PMags have been around for a while, so I would have thought the later was the issue.

I think Hartzell is doing some things to make the product more robust, such as a bearing upgrade. So the product quality issue doesn't reside with Hartzell. It resides (IMO) in the original design, which wasn't as robust as it needed to be.

When pMags were introduced, the theme was "no more maintenance". That ended pretty quickly with annual end play checks, which weren't too onerous, but certainly detracted from the "Install and forget" mantra. Also, people had problems with the cheezy wire harness attachment, then there were temperature issues and other more mysterious issues (like losing timing and needing software updates to fix certain issues). The bottom line is they haven't (yet) lived up to the "install and forget" level of maintenance that was one of the initial selling points. And since they are essentially a black box, if there is a real problem, you're AOG and sending the unit to Emagair or <now> Hartzell. Repairs through Emagair were generally fairly inexpensive, but Hartzell... not so much.

Bottom line is the eMag is a great idea, but the product is more susceptible to failure than advertised. Some people have great service with them, but there are plenty of us who've had problems with a system that was supposed to be more or less problem free.

 

[RV8JD]

Interesting. So Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) is now the Hartzell MRO.

Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) | Hartzell Aviation MRO | Hartzell Aviation

QAA now operates as Hartzell Aviation MRO - the maintenance, repair, overhaul, and distribution arm of the Hartzell Aviation family.

hartzellaviation.com

"Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) is now operating as Hartzell Aviation MRO – the maintenance, repair, overhaul, and distribution division of the Hartzell Aviation family."

​

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[Caveman]

Interesting. So Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) is now the Hartzell MRO.

Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) | Hartzell Aviation MRO | Hartzell Aviation

QAA now operates as Hartzell Aviation MRO - the maintenance, repair, overhaul, and distribution arm of the Hartzell Aviation family.

hartzellaviation.com

"Quality Aircraft Accessories (QAA) is now operating as Hartzell Aviation MRO – the maintenance, repair, overhaul, and distribution division of the Hartzell Aviation family."

​

View attachment 119703​

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Yep, and take a look at the price of magnetos and mag O/H if you haven't lately:
Slick 4371 New and O/H cost
That is for what's on my RV7 IO-360m1b
I just bought 2 4301's for my other project.

Joe

 

[Kyle Boatright]

Yep, and take a look at the price of magnetos and mag O/H if you haven't lately:
Slick 4371 New and O/H cost
That is for what's on my RV7 IO-360m1b
I just bought 2 4301's for my other project.

Joe

The nice thing is that we have options - anywhere from DIY to "bolt on the most expensive certified solution available". Owners of certified aircraft have far fewer options.