Mike S

Mike S

Senior Curmudgeon
This just in from AOPA.

There is a petition to replace the 3rd class medical with the drivers license like what has been done successfully with the Light Sport designation.

We all need to add our support comments to the petition.

The proposal would allow folks to fly aircraft under 6000#s by this action, otherwise heaver aircraft will still need the 3rd class.

As all of our RVs are under this weight, every one of us could benefit from this change.

How many posts in the classified have you seen that start with "lost medical, must sell my RVx"

The entire article is here at

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/?p=31496&cpage=1

And a link to the petition is at http://www.potomac-airfield.com/

As always, thanks
 
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That would be great! I wonder if Vans would have created the -12 if this had passsed 6 years ago?
 
Pilot numbers may be enough to study now

The avowed purpose of a third class medical is to exclude pilots who may be subject to "sudden incapacitation" in order to protect people and property on the ground.

I would be interested in learning:

1. The number of incidents involving "sudden pilot incapacitation" that have harmed people or property on the ground.

2. A sort by private pilot v. sport pilot

3. The demographics of the sport pilot v. private pilot. For example, if a lot of us old boys are opting out of PP to Sport Pilot, one would think that the likelihood of "sudden incapacitation" would go up for Sport Pilot.

4. How accurately MDs and DOs think an AME can predict susceptibility to "sudden incapacitation" via a 3rd Class medical exam.

I am not a doctor. Other than cases of "walking time bombs," e.g., an individual who weighs 300+ lbs, is diabetic, and smokes, can sudden incapacitation really be predicted? BTW, my own personal physician says "no," Isn't one's personal physician more likely to find a medical concern in an annual physical? My annual physical is considerably more thorough than a 3rd Class Medical exam.

LarryT
 
If they did away with 3rd class medicals, that would clear the way for me to build. The way it is now, I'm worried about passing the medical several years in the future. I don't want to build and sell because of liability and can't get excited about any of the Sport Pilot planes.
 
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What would be an interesting number is how many pilots with Class 1 medical become incapacitated win the cockpit or simply die on the sofa while taking a nap. Same thing, in my book because the idea of the medical is to make sure you don't suddenly become incapacitated.

Unfortunately, unless it happens in the cockpit, we will never know about it.

I just googled "airline pilot heart attack" and got 70,500 hits.

As for the 3rd class medical, I think a person is more likely to kill / injure someone while driving down the highway at 70 mph in their SUV when they have that heart attack.

(Let?s just hope none of us have heart attacks!)
 
The system also penalizes pilots for going to the doctor and getting issues fixed.

One can get a couple stents in their heart, 2 years later a fresh heart cath reveals no new disease and full flow and the FAA still may give em flak...

People who know the condition of their heart blood supply are penalized while those that have no idea or mask their symptoms are free as a bird. Does not make sense to me...

My uncle showed me an article in a AARP magazine that focused on a pilot that had had all sorts of heart trouble, passed out a time or two, basically died. This was in 2005. He has now learned to fly and is flying as a light sport pilot and gets featured in a magazine. How much do you want to bet that he has never reported his condition to the FAA? This guy has a history of falling over with heart conditions. There is no way he is legal unless he has a SI medical and what are the odds that he has went down that road? The article even says the pilot is "used to managing ongoing symptoms". I can tell you if you have ongoing symptoms, you do not meet the light sport medical minimums and I am pretty sure you would never get a SI medical.

Plain and simple...The system is broken!
 
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Guys, with all due respect...

While I may share your political opinion, and even though this isn't rocket science, the ONLY thing that will change the mind of the FAA is overwhelming epidemiological data that there is no risk. It would be best if the data was presented by an EAA-AOPA coalition that had the strength of 300,000 & 400,000+ members (and sorry to say PACs) respectively behind it.

I thought my list was reasonable. I thought the questions were questions the FAA needs answers to. All the political commentary in the world, however correct, won't change anything. Perhaps we finally have chance. Let's give the FAA the data they can use to make the correct decision and lean on them (gently) to make the correct decision. My future to be able to fly the plane I want and maybe yours depend on the FAA doing the right thing.

LarryT
 
Mixed Feelings and flying with oxy

About a year ago I flew in to a popular gastronomic airport destination. as I was walking from my plane to the restaurant entrance, an Ercoupe taxied by me and parked as close to the restaurant as he could get. I watched as the 80+ gentleman worked hard to get out of his plane. His next challenge was to get his oxy bottle and cart out. He slowly made his way to the restaurant with his cannula hooked up and oxygen in tow. I'm sure this light sport pilot was a legally licenesed and legally flying because he held a drivers license. This could open up a can of worms. On the other hand I wish I never had to take another physical again. I'm looking at both sides of the argument.

Steve Barnes "The Builders Coach"
 
Steve Barnes said:
I'm sure this light sport pilot was a legally licenesed and legally flying because he held a drivers license. Steve Barnes "The Builders Coach"
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Big misconception....If you have a condition that you know the FAA would not approve of, you are not legal to fly with just your drivers license.

The sport pilot rules are not a get out of jail free card....
 
Brantel said:
Big misconception....If you have a condition that you know the FAA would not approve of, you are not legal to fly with just your drivers license.

The sport pilot rules are not a get out of jail free card....
Click to expand...

LSA rules are like the don' ask, don't tell rule in the military.

The government wrote them, not us. The part about not flying with what MAY be considered a disqualifying condition is in there to cover official butts. They gave us something but they really didn't. With that proviso, why require a drivers license? Much of what the government imposes on us makes no sense, period. It is out and out excessive bureaucracy. The determination of what is and what is not a disqualifying condition can only be determined by an FAA doctor and the entire exemption process (which has been used to qualify individuals with missing limbs), not the individual pilot. So take it from there.

The problem with the medical certification process is that it was never based on medical science from the beginning. It was out of date then and is enormously out of date today.

For example, the medical information from a routine blood test today was unheard of 75 years ago. Not even the 1st class physical requires a blood analysis - a resting EKG, yes, but it too is somewhat of a useless thing. If you are on deaths door step, it may show it, but one can have major problems and it won't show up. If an EKG is used, it should be on a tread mill.

If we are going to have to submit to a 3rd class medical exam in order to fly, it should be a meaningful exam based on current medical science. If not, it ought to dumped. What we are subjected to is a waste of time and money. To use the certificate as an indication one is fit to fly simply is not true. No one uses it to make personal health decisions, how can it possibly be a meaningful indication of fitness to fly .
 
Great idea and one I have been encouraging AOPA and EAA to work on. No medical whatsoever required for sailplanes, and we have decades of experience there. As a physician I can tell you it's very unlikely that a physical exam (especially the usual cursory FAA style exam) is going to turn up something that prevents an incapacitation episode. The history might, but that's totally up to what the pilot is willing to divulge, which goes back to everybody ultimately self-certifies immediately before "clear prop". A surprising number of picture-of-health marathoners drop dead every year, so the science of figuring out who's next is pretty vague.

The driver's license does some screening. In California I'm required to report anybody with new seizures or unexplained black-outs to the DMV, and they lose their license immediately. I'm guessing other states are similar.

As an economic issue, I think it will hurt the LSA business, and probably makes the one I'm building worth less, but that's a good trade-off.
 
Is this REALLY a good idea? Have you seen some of the older folks drive cars?

I do think it sucks that if you lose your medical or health that you lose your dream....but safety is the priority here.

I am a bit biased though.....I am looking to buy an RV and declining health improves the market from my perspective.
 
"Pilot incapacitation extremely rare"

Since this was mentioned in a couple of posts... I found a quote from AOPA.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/operation-safe-pilot.html

Near the bottom of the article:

According to statistics from the AOPA Air Safety Foundation, medical incapacitation accounted for .25 percent (that's one-quarter of one percent) of general aviation accidents and 1.03 percent of fatal GA accidents from 1995 to 2004.
Click to expand...
 
Perhaps that's why...

mbell said:
...The driver's license does some screening. In California I'm required to report anybody with new seizures or unexplained black-outs to the DMV, and they lose their license immediately. I'm guessing other states are similar.
.....
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...the old CA drivers retire to AZ....:D

From the AZ DMV web site...

Is my doctor required to report a physical condition that may affect my ability to drive safely?

NO

Vision seems to be all they care about...

In Arizona, the license is valid until age 65. Any person 65 years and older who is renewing by mail must submit a vision test verification form, provided by the department, or verification of an examination of the applicant's eyesight. The vision test or examination must be conducted not more than 3 months before.
 
Mike S said:
How many posts in the classified have you seen that start with "lost medical, must sell my RVx"
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If you lose your medical for a medical reason, then you can't get a Sport Pilot permit based on your driver's license. It's not a "bypass a failed medical" ticket, if you have a condition which precludes getting a 3rd class medical, you still can't fly.

brantel said:
People who know the condition of their heart blood supply are penalized while those that have no idea or mask their symptoms are free as a bird.
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Unfortunately, allowing people to fly with just a driver's license won't fix that. Some would argue that it would make the situation worse, not better.

I have to wonder if the best way for a pilot to die is in his own airplane. That way, he never has to lose his medical, or give up flying, right until the end. :(
 
tkatc said:
Is this REALLY a good idea? Have you seen some of the older folks drive cars?

I do think it sucks that if you lose your medical or health that you lose your dream....but safety is the priority here.

I am a bit biased though.....I am looking to buy an RV and declining health improves the market from my perspective.
Click to expand...

Easy on us older folks. You may be young for now but don't count on it lasting any longer than it does for everyone else. Time stands still for no one. :)

Most older folks are conservative, they fly slow and drive the speed limit. Nothing dangerous about that. What is dangerous is getting rammed from the rear by a young speeder rushing to who knows where. We live in a time where it is a hazard to drive the speed limit.

With regard to aviation, if a senior can show competence during a BFR, he ought to be able to fly even if he has to drag a O2 bottle along. O2 is required up high, he may just need it a bit lower. :)
 
One thing about this proposal is that it requires a driver's license to fly.

I learned to fly as a teenager, and at the time my parents wouldn't let me get a driver's license. But I walked to the airport and learned to fly, which didn't need parental approval. Good thing, too, because they wouldn't have.

This part of the proposal would prevent that.

I had my pilot's license for a year before I got a driver's license.
 
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