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RV8R999

Well Known Member
I contacted my local avionics shop here in Jacksonville to schedule my first pitot/static and transponder check. When he asked if I had standard gauges or just EFIS I told him I had all EFIS and that they were both dynon (Skyview and D10A).

He said he will do the check for VFR and give me the results in a chart format but will not sign it off for IFR because the equipment is not certified to TSO standards. I reminded him the FAR stipulates the equipment need only meet the standard "OR" be TSO'd not both.

This is frustrating but my point is not to debate the validity of his issue. It is what it is.

My question however is this - If he provides the results of the test and signs for its authenticity and accuracy and it meets the standards for IFR do I even really need him to say anything about IFR? Doesn't the test exist to ensure everyone in the system is reporting to within the prescribed tolerances? If I meet the standard and can prove it, why do I need him to say so?

I guess I could get him to sign off VFR and fly to a shop that has no problem with it but then I get to pay twice :(
 
Would you let me know who this was so I can avoid...

Ken,
I am building a -6A in Jacksonville and will be facing the same issue down the road. I will be hangaring at Craig Apt. PM would be ok, or email.

Thanks.
Wendell
 
Wendell - I'll just tell you here, Its Bragg Avionics. Mike Bragg is a great guy and he's done work for me on my other plane. I'm going to help him with the check and attempt to convince him its ok. If I'm successful I'll let you know.

Do you know what Hangar you'll be in? I'm at Craig now in hangar TB-5 right next to Bragg facing the runway. Stop on by anytime...should have a fridge installed soon :)

cell: 240-682-6238

regards,

Ken
 
Craig Airfield RVers

Hey guys! I knew there had to be some RVers at Craig. I come down there with work occasionally. I have a Dynamic Prop Balancing Service and if you guys are interested in getting your aircraft done, we could set up an appointment next time I come down. Even if your not interested in the Prop Balancing, I'd like to meet you guys! Here is the link to my Prop Balancing site:
http://home.newwavecomm.net/bobbyhester/dynamic_prop_balancing.htm
 
What great timing! I was just researching the available options for prop balancing. Sign me up! I'm hoping for first engine start this weekend and ideally would like to have the prop balanced prior to first flight....thats how I roll. cell:240-682-6238. I'll be deployed most of Aug, All of OCT, NOV and half of DEC. Sep is wide open.

break break

Can anyone tell me how the FAA defines the word "Manufacturer"?

I relearned a couple of things I'd forgotten I knew already after looking at the FARs again tonight.
First: STATIC check is only required for IFR and may be conducted by the Manufacturer. Hmmmm :)

Second: The FARs don't mention anything about a logbook entry stating the airplane is "certified IFR". It just has to meet the standards.... but of course I'm no lawyer. I'm not even a good Sea Lawyer!
 
Next Visit

I'm not sure when my next visit to Jacksonville will be. I was just there a few weeks ago. I would suggest you fly it for a while before getting it Dynamically Balanced, at least until you get it to phase 2. I'll try to find out when I'll be back down there, but I don't think it'll be before Oct. I'll let you know.

You can read about my last visit here:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=58973&highlight=Craig
 
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RV8R999 said:
Can anyone tell me how the FAA defines the word "Manufacturer"?

I relearned a couple of things I'd forgotten I knew already after looking at the FARs again tonight.
First: STATIC check is only required for IFR and may be conducted by the Manufacturer. Hmmmm :)

Second: The FARs don't mention anything about a logbook entry stating the airplane is "certified IFR". It just has to meet the standards.... but of course I'm no lawyer. I'm not even a good Sea Lawyer!
Click to expand...

Manufacturer from the FAA standpoint is pretty clear...look at the airworthiness certificate and data plate.

You are probably correct that the mfgr of the plane could do the inspections, but you need to ensure (just like those of us with an FAA CRS) that it's peformed to the following regulations:

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/REGULATOR...6D8DD8E42FAAB642852566AB006BCD8B?OpenDocument

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_G...9AC8CCE87ACBDA80852566AB006BCECB?OpenDocument

After you take a good read through the above, you'll probably find that in order to get equipment that is calibrated/certified, etc.. it'll cost you way more than just paying a shop to do it. If a shop won't do your experimental, it's either because they 1) aren't comfortable doing it, or 2) ignorant of the actual rules. The tests may seem expensive until you look up the cost of the test boxes...as an example our Txpdr test box costs about $16K and the Pitot/Static box about half the same. Takes a lot of $125 txpdr checks or $350 Pitot checks to pay for the boxes - not to mention regular calibration, etc..

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that as the mfgr if you could meet the specis in 43 E&F (and could prove it) that you'd be fine. There isn't necessarily a logbook entry for IFR "certification", but there is a very clear need for a logbook entry on the Txpdr and optionally pitot/static.

My 2 cents as usual - in this case from doing lots of pitot/static and txpdr checks on both certificated and experimental planes.

Cheers,
Stein
 
Thanks Stein, I agree.

My point about being the mfg is if the certified shop with all the expensive equipment gives me the results of the tests, and those tests meet all the required standards, then I should be free to "sign off" on it.

Regards,

Ken
 
Good timing on this post as I'm planning my pitot & static systems now.

Stein (or others) - is there anything a builder can/should do during construction to make it "easier" for an avionics shop to do the IFR testing?

When they did the VFR, transponder only check for my Beech, they disconnected the static line into the encoder and used that rather than connect at the fuselage ports.

How are the IFR tests run? From the fuselage pitot / static ports?

Thanks for any info
 
My avionics shop had no problem signing off on my pitot/static transponder check. However, I just wish they would have checked to make sure the pitot actually worked after they were done tapping into the lines. Would have been nice to have an ASI on my first flight.

I installed a "T" fittings for the shop to tap into. They will need a tap on both the pitot and static line. Keep them away from AOA if you have it. As they may not know what it is and decide that's interchangeable with A/S.

Even though I had installed the fittings they still managed to charge me $75 for "shop supplies". I was told they needed to install "sealed caps". Which were basically 1/4 tubing caps melted shut.
 
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IowaRV9Dreamer said:
Good timing on this post as I'm planning my pitot & static systems now.

Stein (or others) - is there anything a builder can/should do during construction to make it "easier" for an avionics shop to do the IFR testing?

When they did the VFR, transponder only check for my Beech, they disconnected the static line into the encoder and used that rather than connect at the fuselage ports.

How are the IFR tests run? From the fuselage pitot / static ports?

Thanks for any info
Click to expand...

For a VFR check there is no reason to touch any of the pitot/static lines nor even touch the airplane at all.The new boxes are so good, that you literally point them at the plane's txpdr antenna, enter a few parameters and hit the "test" button. The older boxes had you put a box over the antenna (and you still can), but if you have one of the newer Aeroflex boxes they are pretty nifty.

For an IFR check we have a neat little "suction cup spider thingy" that sucks itself to the side of the plane with 3 vacuum suction cups and a little seal that goes over the static ports (we have multiple adapters for such ports)-and don't forget to seal off the other port - been there done that. The box that drives the suction cups has it's own battery as does all of our test boxes, because the worst thing that could happen is to have the thing come of in the middle of a high altitude test (can ruin both the airplan instruments and the test box).

Anyway, we prefer to use the actual ports on RV's. On other airplanes we'll occasionally plum into the lines, but that doesn't give an accurate representation as to the integrity of the static system as a whole. We also will often hook right onto the pitot tube as well.

The best thing a builder can do is make sure they do a good job on the system. Most shops (including mine) do not want to "fix" or chase leaks - that can turn into a huge labor bill! :)

I'd suggest doing a sort of rudimetary homeade test on your plane before callign the shop. Get a good big plastic syringe and you can at least find out if your system leaks or not before calling the shop.

Ken - I think technically you are probably right. If certified/calibrated equipment is used and you have the paperwork to prove that the items passed specifications listedin the FAR's, then the mfgr probably could sign it off. I'd have to ask a friendly FSDO employee, but I'd tend to agree with you although that's an opinon only - not a verified legal answer.

My 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein
 
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