RVbySDI

RVbySDI

Well Known Member
I am working on the fuselage on my RV9A. I would like to ask what the consensus is for installing brakes on the passenger side rudder pedals. I do not plan to do so. Consequently I did not have the brake pedals for the passenger side. I would appreciate hearing the pros and cons for having passenger brakes vs. not having passenger brakes. Any up sides? Down sides?

Another thought in line with the rudder pedals (can you tell I am working on the rudder/brake pedals? :p ), The plans call out for drilling several holes out for adjustment of the rudder pedals. What did others do on this? Did you drill out several holes? What distance apart did you set the rudder blocks from the previous set of holes if you did? I have started with the front side of the plastic rudder pedal blocks 3 inches from the aft edge of the firewall as the plans call for. I have marked on the side skin longeron adjustments every 1/2 inch but have not drilled any additional holes. Is 1/2 inch adjustment too little distance? Should I set the adjustment holes further apart, say 1 inch further aft from the previous holes? How many adjustment holes did you drill out? Is there a risk of having too many of these holes drilled out in the angle aluminum?

I would appreciate hearing what others have done with the passenger pedals and why; and what they did with the adjustment holes for the rudder blocks.

Thanks in advance to all who reply.
 
In my opinion, the best reason for pax brakes and adjustable pedal positions is to sell the airplane. The new buyer will likely want transition training, and may want the rudder pedal position changed.

One idea I heard was to put the mechanism as far forward as possible, and build extension blocks to the pedals. This gives maximum leg room to your passengers.

BTW... I don't have pax brakes. The downside of having them is weight and more potential for leaks. They can be added later if you want.

Vern Little
 
3 positions (sorry, forgot spacing but it was definitely more than 1/2") -- I think Dan has this addressed on his site pretty well -- since there are some considerations to take into account, such as making sure that holes don't overlap etc.

I put 'em in my plane.

A friend put 'em in his -7A. I'm happy he did -- as I get to fly his plane from right seat and can handle all phases (taxiing, landing etc).

But yes, it's added weight, expense, and added complexity (another possible leak source).. those are the drawbacks.
 
I started from the 3" (or so)that Van's says is minimum behind firewall and gave myself three positions at 1-1/8" apart each. I can now sit in my plane and think I'll want them as far forward as possible--and I'm only 5'10".

Do you EVER want to be able to let someone take training in your plane or yourself be trained by a CFI? I know a lot of CFI's who would refuse to give training in a plane they couldn't stop.

There's no reason you can't add them later though.

Hope this helps.
 
Tall pilots

alpinelakespilot2000 said:
I can now sit in my plane and think I'll want them as far forward as possible--and I'm only 5'10".
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I am 6'1" so for my needs I am sure I will need the pedals as far forward as possible. That was what got me thinking about whether I should drill adjustment holes or not. If anything aft of the forward position is too cramped then I cannot see where I would benefit from drilling adjustment holes. However, I would like to be able to accomodate a shorter pilot who cannot reach the pedals that wants to fly the plane. Of course, it doesn't appear that this would be an easy adjustment to make and therefore would not be something I would just whip up in short order if there were someone who could not reach the pedals.

Once the side skins and the general construction of the cabin is completed can these holes still be drilled out at a later date or should I go ahead and drill them out now? I guess my concern is drilling holes in the angle that may weaken its structural strength. Or is this not an issue?
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
Do you EVER want to be able to let someone take training in your plane or yourself be trained by a CFI? I know a lot of CFI's who would refuse to give training in a plane they couldn't stop.
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Good question. Training in the plane was one thing that got me to thinking about pax brakes. However, the time it would be flown as a trainer should be very minimal. On the other hand, its primary mission will be travel with my wife in the pax seat. She does not have a brake pedal in our car over there when I drive. I cannot see where not having pax brakes would be much different in the plane.
 
Steve-
Don't put too much faith in my rudder pedal position choices. I haven't even got seat cushions in yet (just pillows!) so it is really hard to tell. It does seem like they will be closer to the firewall wall though. Remember too that you will have some flexibility in where you locate the seat.

I would drill whatever holes you need to now before riveting the skin to the stiffener. I suppose you could do it later, but it was so much easier drilling it out on the bench and away from the skin. I'm sure drilling three positions is no big deal. Not sure if there is any reason why you couldn't drill more--just make sure you have sufficient spacing between the holes so that you don't have edge distance/pitch issues. Good luck.
 
No brakes for the pax. Reduced build time and less complex.
I used Van's spec for the forward location and 2 more sets of holes drilled on a 1" spacing for possible aft locations.
Most folk here at the home patch seem to leave the rudder assy at the forward position. Note to maintain the angle of the rudder pedal if it is relocated, the steel links will need to be replaced with shorter/longer versions.
Steve in Utah
 
I installed passenger brake/rudder pedals. My theory? You know? You just never know what can happen. I figure if something happens in the plane to me, I want whoever is in the passenger seat to have as much chance at getting the plane down -- and, umm, stopped -- as possible. Adding brakes didn't cost much and doesn't involve much work.

YMMV.
 
I installed pax brakes

It took a few extra hours (maybe 4?) I want to be able to get instruction, and perhaps give it once I get my CFI.

The downside, aside from the obvious weight, cost, build time, and potential for leaks, is that some passenger might someday stomp on a brake pedal inadvertently. In a taildragger, you might end up on your nose.

I painted the pedals red to avoid that, i.e. part of the preflight briefing is to tell the pax, "See those red things? Please keep your feet away from them!"
 
The way I see it, is that I have ONE primary passenger/co-pilot. She is going to have her PPL by the time the build is done, owns at least half of this project, and will be responsible for conducting a safe flight from the right seat when I feel like a nap on a long trip. Full brakes on the right, canted forward just a few degrees more than on the left side.
 
Thanks for the insights!

Thanks to all for replying to my inquiries. I will go with the 1-1/8" spacing that Steve Moore mentioned for the rudder pedal adjustment. This seems like a legitimate measure for adjustment if needed. As far as the passenger brakes, well, I am just not convinced that I will need them. Since they can be added at any later date, I will hold off on them for now and add them if I change my mind.
 
mgomez said:
It took a few extra hours (maybe 4?) I want to be able to get instruction, and perhaps give it once I get my CFI.

The downside, aside from the obvious weight, cost, build time, and potential for leaks, is that some passenger might someday stomp on a brake pedal inadvertently. In a taildragger, you might end up on your nose.

I painted the pedals red to avoid that, i.e. part of the preflight briefing is to tell the pax, "See those red things? Please keep your feet away from them!"
Click to expand...

I don't think the "passenger might step on a pedal" is valid. I have over 2500hrs in high performance airplanes including a bunch of hours in Van's products and have never had a passenger do that. Of course they get a thorough briefing beforehand and a reminder to check thier feet before T/O and landing. Put the righthand brakes in. You will probably regret it later if you don't. Don
 
rudder pedal position

The final position of the pedals, as far as leg length is concerned, depends on the length of the side plates and cables. Moving the top pivot changes how the assembly hangs, you want to have the assembly vertical when the rudder is central, otherwise the cables wont run freely at the extremes of movement. the pedal swings up as well as backwards. too much upward movement and the rudder cable is running at an angle and the cable end fitting catches on the grommet in the fuselage frame.
Steve Hill
 
stevehilleo said:
...Moving the top pivot changes how the assembly hangs, you want to have the assembly vertical when the rudder is central, otherwise the cables wont run freely at the extremes of movement....
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That's a really good point. I've been thinking about moving the pedal assembly one extra hole forward to have them tilt a bit. Didn't think about the cable ends hanging up. I'll have to look at that. Thanks.
 
Not for me..

My wife would never be willing to touch the controls, so why add weight, money and time to the project.
I will be the only pilot that will ever land or takeoff. I will let friends/kids fly from the right seat, but they won't need brakes.

If I sell the plane to someone that wants to have breaks on the right, they can always be added later.

Kent
 
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