J

JumpNurse

Active Member
Greetings all.

I'm considering forming a partnership with another individual to build an RV. There is lots of info on partnerships, but I'm not finding much on having one during the build phase. I am curious who has done it. Any words of wisdom? Would you do it again/do it differently? Things to look out for? I know it isn't ideal, but spreading out the finances and work load would make it easier to get past the CFO. The idea is to build a 12 as they seem to go together relatively quickly. Then use that to build flying time, building experience, and hopefully a bit of equity that will offset a 14 build in the future. Thanks for any input.

Shane
 
JumpNurse said:
Greetings all.

I'm considering forming a partnership with another individual to build an RV. There is lots of info on partnerships, but I'm not finding much on having one during the build phase. I am curious who has done it. Any words of wisdom? Would you do it again/do it differently? Things to look out for? I know it isn't ideal, but spreading out the finances and work load would make it easier to get past the CFO. The idea is to build a 12 as they seem to go together relatively quickly. Then use that to build flying time, building experience, and hopefully a bit of equity that will offset a 14 build in the future. Thanks for any input.

Shane
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One of you is almost certain to have more time or inclination to spend hours in the shop than the other - you should address equity of time versus dollars for parts up front, to avoid hard feelings and arguments as differentials occur.
 
airguy said:
One of you is almost certain to have more time or inclination to spend hours in the shop than the other - you should address equity of time versus dollars for parts up front, to avoid hard feelings and arguments as differentials occur.
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Many years ago, 1970's, a close friend of mine had a group of 9 people building a Pitts.
They decided that if you didn't show up on "build" night, you must put in $5. It wasn't long before they had lots of money and little airplane.
3 of the group ended up finishing the Award Winning airplane. Total build time was 9 years. And that was not a long time to build a Pitts S1S.

I've been closely related to several "airplane partnerships". Most don't work well. The ones that do work are run like a business with everything in writing.
 
There were once three friends building two Cozy MKIV's at my Home. My brother-in-law was in partnership with his friend on one plane and I was single ownership of the second. We started these planes together from scratch and basically just did double duty as we built. In fact,,,we had not even assigned who's plane was who's until over half way completed. Things worked out well until that point and then things got ugly. My brother-in-law lost the drive to complete the plane, wanted to deviate from the plans, failed to put in the time his partner and I were putting in, then complaining that the time he "thought" about working on the planes during the week counted as his time working! It got SO bad that my brother-in-law and his partner dissolved their partnership and the brother-in-law bought out his partner and had to leave the shop with his plane. I then sold my plane to the partner and we finished it up together in my shop. He in turn helped me build my RV-10 to completion. Years later the relationship I have with my brother-in-law can be best described as "civil" and there is NO relationship anymore between my brother-in-law and his former partner who is a good friend of mine. Makes for very awkward social settings. After that experience I would never entertain the thought of a partnership of any kind involving tangible property. Just my 2 cents worth based on my personal experience. YMMV.
 
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So Mel,

If I'm reading you correctly, I should have my Wife sign An agreement the next time I build? Wish I'd gotten that advice before! Lots of arguments over new panel stuff.
 
I did it without a partner, and very happy about that decision. It possibly took longer but at least I'm still friends with myself and now I don't have to share. :eek:

Bevan
 
As you want to move from the RV-12 to the RV-14 I suggest you skip a step. Find someone who wants to build an RV-14 (or any RV) and you build two together. As finances and projects are separate you minimize risk if there is a break up. Having a co-builder also solves the multiple issue of having a helping hand or another set of eyes when needed.

I was part of a group of three building RV-8s at the same time. We would rotate between projects for "rivet parties" and such. One person ended up becoming the fiberglass expert, one was great at group deals on parts, and I did the panels. After 18 years we are still close friends.

Carl
 
Carl Froehlich said:
As you want to move from the RV-12 to the RV-14 I suggest you skip a step. Find someone who wants to build an RV-14 (or any RV) and you build two together. As finances and projects are separate you minimize risk if there is a break up. Having a co-builder also solves the multiple issue of having a helping hand or another set of eyes when needed.

I was part of a group of three building RV-8s at the same time. We would rotate between projects for "rivet parties" and such. One person ended up becoming the fiberglass expert, one was great at group deals on parts, and I did the panels. After 18 years we are still close friends.

Carl
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I would normally agree with you completely. However, I am still a student pilot. Given the higher performance, and likely less-forgiving flight characteristics, I think building some time in a more docile machine would be appropriate. Additionally, the 14 will undoubtedly be a more complex build. The 12 should go together quickly and with a limited ability to deviate from the plans (and therefore eliminating conflicts on preferred equipment, etc...). Ideally the 12 could be built fast enough to avoid anyone losing interest. However, if anyone is considering building a 14 in the East Valley of Phoenix I'm all ears.
 
JumpNurse said:
I would normally agree with you completely. However, I am still a student pilot. Given the higher performance, and likely less-forgiving flight characteristics, I think building some time in a more docile machine would be appropriate. Additionally, the 14 will undoubtedly be a more complex build. The 12 should go together quickly and with a limited ability to deviate from the plans (and therefore eliminating conflicts on preferred equipment, etc...). Ideally the 12 could be built fast enough to avoid anyone losing interest. However, if anyone is considering building a 14 in the East Valley of Phoenix I'm all ears.
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Build what you want to fly. I built the RV-8A while I got my ticket, and flew a tail dragger Cessna 150 to keep my hand in before the RV-8A was done.

I'm helping someone with an RV-14 build now. I can tell you it is easier than my RV-8A build, and simple compared to my RV-10 build.

Carl
 
Partnership

There is risk in a partnership, but mine went very well and was one of the high points of my life. Keys to success in my opinion:

Both parties share a dream

Both parties have plenty of money for the project/features contemplated

Each party has the full support of his/her significant other

Both parties have the time necessary for the project to be completed expeditiously

The parties have signed a complete buy-sell agreement to cover all contingencies and have the money to immediately execute it if necessary.

Each party knows the other to be a person of unquestionable integrity.

--LeRoy Johnston RV-6A Esperanza 1050 hours
 
rv4bill said:
So Mel,

If I'm reading you correctly, I should have my Wife sign An agreement the next time I build? Wish I'd gotten that advice before! Lots of arguments over new panel stuff.
Click to expand...

Ann & I have built more than a few airplanes together and we don't have a "written" agreement. But then again, WE are the exception, not the rule.

It's funny, when we were building our house, people asked, "You built a house together and are still married?" My answer, "Heck, we've built several airplanes together. The house was a cakewalk."

The last thing you want is AIDS. Aircraft Induced Divorce Syndrome.
 
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We are about to have the airworthiness inspection on a project that we joined in progress a little over a year ago. The owner had been stalled for many years with an airframe essentially complete but needing wiring, firewall forward, and all the random last 5% that takes so much time. We were looking for a bush plane at the time, and agreed to buy half of the project and see it to completion - but first I said that we'd just show up for a month and work on it with the original owner. We figured that if we liked the experince, we'd write a check. If not, we'd part company in a friendly fashion, and our work to that point was our gift to a fellow builder.

It's been a fun year plus, and soon we'll have a new airplane to fly with our new good friends.

Oh yes - we have a written agreement on how we handle expenses, insurance - all of the stuff that even friends shoudl write down.
 
Two of us built a RV12 together. Took us 15 months. It was a great experience. Neither of us had ever built a full scale airplane before. Both of us had a pilot's license but were in the "rusty pilot" category because we hadn't flown for many years. We stated on July 11, 2014, and finished on Oct. 8th, 2015. Now, about 6 months after we got our pink slip, we have a little over 100 hours on it. Built as an E-LSA. We did pick up a third partner prior to completion but he did not participate in the building process. He is a CFII so he was instrumental in getting us current again.

Bob
 
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