No chute...

My first flight was over subdivisions close to the airport, including my own home. There is no way I'd abandon ship............and possibly take the chance of destroying someone else's life below.

Since the RV is a proven airplane, this diminishes the risk of faulty flight dynamics, or structural failure..........for that first flight.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
I use a chute for our equivalent of "Phase 1" (but is only 5-10hrs :) )...

However, the circumstances I'd use it, and ability to use it, are not 100% clear compared to say, types with clear adandonment procedures.

I do not see it being used at low level, nor for pure engine failure. More the "exploratory" areas, especially spin testing and aerobatics, VNE dives. These are then planned in locations / altitudes where one would/could sensibly abandon. There is also the flying problem where you can "just" fly the aircraft, but not actually land it (an aerodynamic / flying control problem) - maybe more likely for 1st flight.

I have a chute that fits (most) RVs well, and for this flying it does not seem the most prudent idea to leave it at home. General "expert" advice (i.e. from authorities, not this forum) is that one should be worn. However, I would not think adversely of anyone who chose not to...

Andy Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV8tors
 
L.Adamson said:
No chute...

My first flight was over subdivisions close to the airport, including my own home. There is no way I'd abandon ship............and possibly take the chance of destroying someone else's life below.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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I think that may be a little short sighted. For example, what if a heim joint on the elevator push rod broke and you were able to fly using trim but couldn't land it. If you had a chute you could climb to altitude over an unpopulated area and bail out. I used the heim joint example because it has happened before. Just a different way to look at it. Also, staying in an uncontrollable airplane doesn't make sense. If it is uncontrollable then you are not going to effect the impact point but it is a sure death. If you bail out of an airplane that you are not in control of anyway, then you have a chance at survivial. Granted the plane could hurt someone on the gound but there is a lot of area that people are not occupying. Bottom line it is a roll of the dice but your chance of dying if you stay in the plane is near 100% and the chance of hitting someone on the ground is a whole lot less.
 
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One can argue the "pros" all day.
What could possibly be a "con"?
Seriously, most RVs built today probably could not be successfully evacuated in flight. My RV-6 was built with the original jettisonable tilt-up canopy with no struts. I can get out if the need arises. I haven't needed to in over 18 years and don't anticipate future needs of this type, but I can!
 
If anyone is looking for a cushion type parachute. I have a national 425 i am putting for sale soon.
 
I have not yet made my first flight, but???

L.Adamson said:
No chute...

My first flight was over subdivisions close to the airport, including my own home. There is no way I'd abandon ship............and possibly take the chance of destroying someone else's life below.

Since the RV is a proven airplane, this diminishes the risk of faulty flight dynamics, or structural failure..........for that first flight.

L.Adamson --- RV6A
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I thought that during phase one you were not supposed to be over populated areas? We were talking about the test phase, the one that you are restricted to an area for so many of the initial flight hours, the amount based on if you have a certified engine and Propeller or not. Other equipment may also have a factor on ones flight restrictions?:confused:
 
GAHco said:
I thought that during phase one you were not supposed to be over populated areas? We were talking about the test phase, the one that you are restricted to an area for so many of the initial flight hours, the amount based on if you have a certified engine and Propeller or not. Other equipment may also have a factor on ones flight restrictions?:confused:
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To make a trip around the pattern, I'm over a populated area. And it's included in the test area. I live across the street from the airport. When I did my solo here, it was all wheat fields. Shame on people moving out here! :)

BTW--- two hours later, I flew about 100 miles to a distant airport with a friend right behind me, in his 9A. It was all desert, freeway, and Sunday for less traffic. That airport was included in the test area also.

L.Adamson ---- RV6A
 
To chute or not to chute..

The professional test pilot who made the first flight on my Long-EZ said his philosophy is he would only jump for two reasons; loss of structural integrity and fire in the cockpit.
A friend of mine, "Smokie One", was a B-24 pilot in the Pacific. The elevator cables and hydraulics were destroyed over the Philippines from a Kamikaze ramming his plane, His B-24 lost elevator pitch control, however the elevator trim was intact. He recovered the B-24 from a steep dive using only elevator trim. He was able to fly the airplane 8 hrs back to base, arriving just at dawn. Using power and elevator trim he made a successful landing at their home base at Owi (north of New Guinea). His story and many others are documented in the book "B-24 Snoopers" (http://www.ozatwar.com/books/snoopers.htm
It can be done.....
 
I am glad it went well!

L.Adamson said:
To make a trip around the pattern, I'm over a populated area. And it's included in the test area. I live across the street from the airport. When I did my solo here, it was all wheat fields. Shame on people moving out here! :)

BTW--- two hours later, I flew about 100 miles to a distant airport with a friend right behind me, in his 9A. It was all desert, freeway, and Sunday for less traffic. That airport was included in the test area also.

L.Adamson ---- RV6A
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I am glad it went well!

I am looking forward to my first flight:cool:
 
Right now I'm planning on using a chute from work (if it's legal) otherwise I'll borrow one, unless I can be convinced other wise and several experienced builders can tell me my work is good enough to not worry about.

The airport and test area are sparse desert, and as was mentioned my two biggest fears are structural failure, and fire. In either case, it'll be insured and I'll have no problem "giving it back."
 
Using a Chute

It sounds so reasonable to wear a chute for your first flight until you put it into practice. Most of us will not be able to wear a chute and sit in the normal position in the cockpit. You will be pushed forward, and possibly higher. The stick will be in your lap. You will feel awkward at a time when you want to be comfortable and relaxed.

Most GA pilots have had no parachute training, and only know to pull the D-ring to open the chute. I'd guess that an untrained pilot's ability to egress an RV on his first flight, and successfully deploy a chute to a safe landing would be close to zero. Now, consider how wearing the chute will make flying your new airplane even more challenging, then it make very little sense.

If you were wise enough to use an aircraft engine and propeller, and you built your RV using accepted aeronautical standards, then your new airplane will be about as experimental as the next Cessna 172 coming off the line.

Jay Pratt at RV Central has made at least 35 first flights in every kind of RV. Ask him how many times he wore a parachute. I completely agree with him, and have made two RV-8 first flights myself, happy not to be wearing a chute.
 
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Danny if you take your seat back cushion out it is a wash on seating position pretty much. I did make a 1/2" cushion out of sleeping bag mat so the chute and seat back don't rub. I've also used it for a tall person's ride or two.
 
Are there examples of an RV crashing in an early-phase flight where the pilot was killed but, had he worn a chute, he might have bailed out and survived?
 
Not to toot my own horn here, but as a former sport skydiving instructor I can say from experience that the odds of making a successful first freefall with no formal instruction along with the added stress of bailing out of your new airplane on one of its first flights are seriously stacked against you. Go get some skydiving instruction first if you feel you want a parachute during phase 1. You'll learn a lot, and besides, it's fun!
 
Danny & Kurt, I have to respectfully disagree with you. I have had no jump training at all, but I'd rather have the option to at least attempt a bail out if things came to that. I've got quick release pins on my slider, so getting out isn't a problem. After that, from what I'm told from very reliable sources, emergency parachutes are designed to open successfully even if you're tumbling. I believe the OP was probably asking about emergency parachutes vs. skydiving (rectangular) 'chutes.

I truly don't believe the statement that you have a zero chance of making a successful jump. Sure, your chances would be a lot better with training. But zero?? Gimme a break. ;)
 
I've known of at least two people who bailed out of a disabled experimental aircraft on their "first" jump. Both survived with minor scratches.

I've been through jump "ground school" but have never actually jumped. It might not be pretty, but I think I could survive.
 
Structural failure or fire as concerns. Fair enough.

But you are far better off building it according to plans, use quality components and accepted aircraft practices, and double and triple check all critical connections.

Use an EAA Tech counselor or equivalent and have someone more experienced make the few few flights.
 
I wouldn't necessarily go out and buy a brand new parachute... but I'd certainly make an effort to borrow one for the first flights. Also, read a few articles about emergency chutes, familiarize yourself with the parachute and give some thought to when/how you will bail out. If you're inhaling smoke and wrestling a canopy against aerodynamic loads... it's not a good time to formulate a bail out procedure.

I personally know two pilots who are alive because of emergency parachutes. The first was due to a midair collision. The second happened to a licensed flight instructor in a homebuilt glider. He was working a rough thermal and at some point found himself in an unrecoverable spin. His full-flying tail was stalled and wouldn't respond to his inputs. He landed safetly by parachute... his glider impacted in the same field.
 
I'd second some skydiving instruction... mostly on the argument that you will have some fun! Besides, you might be slightly less hesitant to bail when you need to.

Getting out is often the hardest part and that's something that skydiving can't help you with. Imagine trying to open a jammed canopy while the aircraft is tumbling... or standing up against 3 or 4 g's. Getting out can be difficult and you probably don't have much time to do it! One German study examined accident reports and found that a large number of people tried to bail out and were not successful.
 
Whatever you choose to do, parachute or not, here's to hoping nobody ever has to test it out. Build 'er strong and be safe up there!
 
Ron Lee said:
Structural failure or fire as concerns. Fair enough.

But you are far better off building it according to plans, use quality components and accepted aircraft practices, and double and triple check all critical connections.

Use an EAA Tech counselor or equivalent and have someone more experienced make the few few flights.
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One is not mutually exclusive of the other. If you're using a chute as a band aid or excuse to avoid properly building, then yeah, that's a bad idea. I highly doubt anyone here is thinking about it that way though. A parachute is nothing more than an option.

What's the old phrase? Something like: "a crash happens when you run out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas". Well...a chute is just 1 more idea. Hopefully the last one, but an idea none the less.

But to say you're better off building to plans and using quality components and not using a parachute than you are building the same way and using one I think is a pretty stubborn way of looking at it.

Now, if the chute does in fact interfere in some way with how you fly the plane...then yeah, that's a different story.
 
David Shelton said:
I wouldn't necessarily go out and buy a brand new parachute... but I'd certainly make an effort to borrow one for the first flights. Also, read a few articles about emergency chutes, familiarize yourself with the parachute and give some thought to when/how you will bail out. If you're inhaling smoke and wrestling a canopy against aerodynamic loads... it's not a good time to formulate a bail out procedure.
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speaking of smoke inhalation, has anyone thought of using an emergency hood? I think the makers of the evac u8 have gone out of business, but maybe something like this http://www.smokehoods.com/products/vrup_main.aspx would work in a cockpit?

anyone thought of having a smoke hood?
 
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