W

wooody10

Member
I am in the process of laying out my RV-9A instrument panel and was curious about what warning lights other people have put on their panels, both the number of warning lights and the legend on each light.

Jim Streit
RV90073
[email protected]
 
I have RV7A IO-360. Warning lights are Engine (EIS warning light from Grand Rapids), Low Volts (from voltage reg. EIS also monitors low volts so is a bit redundant), and starter engaged. I also have boost pump blue light and a fuel transfer systm (blue light) for long range flights. I have some Aircraft Spruce warning lights for sale if you want them. You can print out the label for the light on a laser printer and clear label.

I have also seen lights reminder of canopy open, pitot heat on, etc.

See here:
http://www.members.kingston.net/sjhdcl/rv_stuff_for_sale.htm
3rd one from the bottom.

ACS page:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/legendlights.php

Steve
RV7A
 
I have two "Warning" lights, and six "Hey Dummy" lights. Since I have an EFIS, almost everything in the airplane is limit-sensed and drives error messages right on the screen, so I don't really need a light to alert me to those. I do have a red "Master Caution" light driven by my EIS, in case the EFIS goes nutty. I also have a red Oil Pressure light driven directly by an oil presure switch, in case ALL the electronics going out to lunch...

In the "Hey DummY" department, I have lights to tell me that I have left the following on:

Landing Light
Taxi Light
Fuel Pump
Pitot Heat
Essential Bus Alternate Feed

I have one other light to tell me that External Power is plugged in to the ship.

Paul
 
Hi Paul. Thanks for the input. I have the EIS w/dual EFIS also. Just wanting to get ideas of things to warn about before I cut metal. Congrats on ST115 which seems to be running ahead of schedule. You and "the crew" make us all very proud. By the way Brent Jett is from "here", Ft Lauderdale also.
 
wooody04 said:
I am in the process of laying out my RV-9A instrument panel and was curious about what warning lights other people have put on their panels, both the number of warning lights and the legend on each light.

Jim Streit
RV90073
[email protected]
Click to expand...


Hi Jim, here's what I did:

115_1542_1.jpg


The lamps are (left to right): STALL, ENGINE, FLAPS, BOOST

I have a stall sensor vane driving the STALL light independent of the AoA function of the Dynon-- allowing an independent warning with avionics power off.

The ENGINE warning lamp is the logical 'OR' of low oil pressure (from sensor) and the RMI Micromonitor warning system.
It will operated independently of the RMI unit for low oil pressure.
.
The FLAPS lamp indicates whenever the flaps are running. My flap switch is an ON-OFF-(ON) type, and can be left in the UP position.
The lamp is a reminder to center the switch.

The fuel BOOST lamp is a gentle reminder to switch the fuel boost pump off.

On my list of things to do is the following:
Rewire the FLAPS indicator to be a PITOT heat indicator (once Dynon supplies a heated probe).
I will redo my flap switch to have a timer to automatically switch the motor off after about 6 seconds.... so a warning lamp won't be required.


Vern Little
 
Only one light needed!

Jim,

My -9 will have only one green light in the panel and that is to let me know when the fuel pump is on.

The Dynon D-10 EMS I have installed has all sorts of warning parameters that can be set and when something goes out of bounds (low/high oil, fuel, temp, etc.) it puts a red banner across both the EMS and the EFIS screens AND it will put a tone in your headset.

I found no need for redundancy or complexity with this set up.

Good luck with your panel, this is the fun part of building.
 
wiring diagrams? auto pilot active light?

Please forgive my asking two questions in one post.

1. Does anyone have wiring diagrams that show the connections of what Paul Dye refers to as the "hey dummy" lights that are used to show when something is on....boost pump for example?

2. Is anyone using an "auto pilot engaged" light, or is there a light on the autopilot that performs that function adequately? I plan on going with the trio.

Thanks
 
Tony, just wire it up at the switch (on the load side, of course). Crimp two wires into that one connector -- one going to the load (eg. boost pump) and the other going into the light.. .. then provide separate ground wire for the light..
 
Radomir,

Thanks for the information. It sounds simple enough. I thought that was how it went, but I wanted to be sure. My concern is that the "warning" light would light up even if the device was not working, if the device failed.

I don't know of any other way to do it that is workable.

Thanks again
 
Warning lights

There are 4 warnings on my 9a. All of these are flashing LED's and are on the top of the panel centered over the flight instruments. One is red and is wired to an oil pressure switch on the firewall. Thankfully this one has never come on in flight! There is another red one that is wired to an output from the fuel guage which is an EI and turns on the LED when either tank gets below 2 gallons. This one can be shut off with the toggle on the front of the guage. The third and fouth are amber and green and pick up their power from the dimmer when the nav lights are on. The 3rd is turned on by the message feature of my panel mount Garmin GPS and gets my attention at night before busting airspace or to notify of programmed messages such as times to switch tanks. The 4th is the arrival feature of the GPS and the thinking was that at night I could easily fly right past an airport and never see it. So far these have worked out for me.

Best,
 
Just an FYI for all you guys wiring things to the load/unit side of switches or circuit breakers. At best all you are accomplishing is a light to tell you the switch is on. It will give you no indication of whatever you are switching being on or off.

For example, I have an "idiot light" for my fuel boost pump. Not because it tells me that it's actually working or not, just to remind me to shut the darned switch off.

The only way you'll get a true indication of annunciation is through somewhat complex means (most of the time, but some things are easier). For example, the Lancair Gear Pump has a "Low Discrete Out" that is activated whenever the pump runs, and hence we can illuminate a light when the pump is running...NOT related to the switch position. For things like Landing lights, you'd have to pick off a low or high downstream of the light to actually know if it's working...if it were wired to the switch then all you will find out is that your switch is working and turned on, but nothing to do with the actual unit working or not.

Hope that all makes sense!

Cheers,
Stein.
 
Paul -

Any way a "punch off" Master Caution switch/light could replace the one that comes with the EIS?
 
The following copied from the AeroElectric forum regarding current sensing and the ability to power panel lights.
****************************************************************

I've not published any specifics on utilizing reed-switches
as current sensors. They're used in MANY similar applications
on our production airplanes. Light ON says system IS powered
and IS drawing current.

Reed switches come in lots of sizes and sensitivities.
Get a 275-232 reed relay from Radio Shack. Remove
existing excitation coil and rewind with 22AWG for up
to 10A circuit and 16AWG for up to 20A circuit. Find
minimum number of turns that will close the relay contacts
when your electro-whizzie is powered at about 10 volts
(end of battery life).
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/CurrentSense.jpg

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/DeIce/Pitot_Heat.pdf

I've considered packaging calibrated current sensors
either with reed switches or perhaps more sophisticated
electronics . . . but the reeds are simple, inexpensive
and reasonably rugged after installation. You'll need
to be gentle on these things while working with them.
After the design is fixed, consider "potting" the
werks in hot-glue.

For individual loose reed capsules check out

http://tinyurl.com/yfb3rf

http://mpja.com/productview.asp?product=7459+SW

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G13078

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G13997

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GP57

It takes some experimentation but the simple-ideas that
support the invention are sound. We've been doing this
in GA aircraft for decades.

Bob . . .
 
Dimmers are necessary...

Make sure you have a dimmer for any light that will be "on" in normal operation.. like the fuel pump light. I found that the blue LED light that I used was WAY TOO BRIGHT at night.

I added a single switch on the ground side of my warning lights (they all ground through the switch). When the switch is on, current flows through as normal. (bright) When the switch is off, current flows through a resistor that jumps the switch. (dim) Just connect the resistor to each leg of the switch where the wires connect. You'll have to experiment to get the right resistor.

You can also use a pot instead of the switch for a variable dimmer.
 
Clay is right about dimmer's - I added one real quick when I had the lights on and turned the shop lights off - those LED's are bright! I use a pot...

Stein is also right on about what the "Hey Dummy" lights are really saying - they only say the switch is on. A quick trick to see if your landing lights are REALLY on during the day, or that the pitot heat is really working, is to watch the the Amps indication on your meter or EFIS when you flick the switch....at least, that's how I do it.

And for Clayton's question - I guess you could build something fancy, but I just reach down and punch the button on the EIS to cancel the M/A. It's right where my left hand lands when I take it off the throttle anyway.

Paul
 
I have one red warning light hooked to a 15 psi or below oil press sw on fire wall to remind me to turn off master switch before leaving aircraft, the switch also turns on and off the hour meter. Fred, RV 7A flying 210 hours
 
Q's for vern

vlittle said:
Hi Jim, here's what I did: The lamps are (left to right): STALL, ENGINE, FLAPS, BOOST Vern Little
Click to expand...
Vern a few questions:

What part number?

LED or Incandescent?

What type or brand?

Can you get at bulb replacement from front of panel?
 
dimmers

I am using LED's for warning lights. I am putting resistors inline to step down the power to them. What kind of dimmer should I use? I have one from Vans but after reading several posts here on the unreliability of that dimmer, I may not use it. I have also heard that not all dimmers will work with LED's.

Any input would be appreciated.

Tony
 
A Different Perspective

I'd like to offer another view on the topic of warning lights in the panel. I know how easy it is to get intoxicated by an array of warning lights in your panel. They look cool and add an air of sophistication and complexity that compliments our pilot skills.

In the end, I've found them to be superfilous, irritating, ignorable, and sometime dangerous. I don't like to put warning lights in the panel just to tell me things are on. This is mostly redundant to the fact that the switch is in a different position from off. Second, it degrades from those warning lights that are really needed and are important. Things like alternator warning, low oil pressure, or warnings from your EFIS (if so equipped) are much more important to see and recognize early than if you left your fuel pump on.

In my RV-6, I used the lighted and engravable toggle switches that Pacific Coast Avionics (and others) sell. If the switch was on, it was lighted. After a short while of flying, I found the lighted switches to be rather annoying, and they really didn't add much value. And I guess that's the bottom line. Is a lighted idiot light really going to add any value to my management of the cockpit.

In my Rocket, there are only two warning lights, and I really need to add a third. One, I have a red LED connected to the alternator controller circuit so that I know immediately and unmistakably if my primary alternator fails. This is important since I'm an all electric airplane. Second, I have a temporary light that's connected to the starter to tell me when it's engaged. It goes off immediately when the starter switch is released. Third, I could use a light to tell me when my electronic ignition is on but my master is off. Since it's wired directly to my battey bus, it can drain my battery if left on. Finally, I didn't even bother to wire up a warning light to my EFIS because it flashes all warnings on the screen and I thought the additional light was redundant.

In the end, it's everyone's choice on how to outfit their panel. I've been there and done that with a panel full of more lighted switches and lights than a commercial airliner. In the end, I've come to appreciate a little more simplicity in this area to add value to what's really important. YMMV.
 
Randy is right, they don't call them idiot lights for nothing

f1rocket said:
I'd like to offer another view on the topic of warning lights in the panel. I know how easy it is to get intoxicated by an array of warning lights in your panel. They look cool and add an air of sophistication and complexity that compliments our pilot skills.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%, yes Randy I agree. :D

The grand rapids EIS4000 engine monitor has a warning light. It glows when ANY hi/lo limit it exceeded in the engine/system monitor, with some cool logic behind it. One light, dozens and dozens of systems monitored, beauty.

The other light I feel is a must is the alternators low volt / no charge light. Even though the EIS has the low volt monitored, with all the elect panels and ignitions its an idiot light that earns it way onto the plane.

OIL PRESSURE - If I did not have a EIS4000 I'd have a low oil pressure light with the alternator light. That is it.

The only superfluous light I considered was the "green" FUEL PUMP ON light. Not needed since you can hear the pump, see the switch is on and the fuel pressure is higher or lower.

The advantage of leaving idiot lights off, less weight, less time to build, less cost, less maintenance.

Older bizz jets and airliners had large annunciation panels with dozens of lights, a source of 1000's of questions for a check ride. What does that light mean? They also impresses the kids when they visit the cockpit. Press test and its Christmas. Now the modern design concept (for 20 years) is quite dark cockpit. If its dark its good. Lights are distracting.

Be cool and see how few lights you can use. However I don't think you need much justification for ALT and OIL P lights. Also OIL P is a good reminder to turn the MASTER switch off, which I have never forgot. :rolleyes: (well once)
 
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Maybe I will all get better....

I have found a number of time 20 minutes into my flight that the fuel pump is still on. I have been think of putting in a light to remind me to turn if off after takeoff.
I can't hear the fuel pump running. I could add a item to my check list I guess.

Kent
 
Warning light and auto pilot toggle

Tony,
You raise a very good question that can be addressed well by the RV community. There are hundreds of ways to properly address your question. Here is just one example. I am attaching a picture of my panel on the RV9-A with slider. The little light (nearly a black dot in the photo) directly above the 3 1/8" TruTrak ADI is a simple "low oil pressure" red light connected to the oil pressure sensor and is eye level.
The TruTrak auto pilot is well lit and very readable and has its own on/off button. I went one step further and wired this into a toggle switch so I could override the auto pilot and completely disconnect with a kill switch on the panel. I am confident that others have additional suggestions that I hope will work for you.
http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=patspanelrv9axg1.jpg

Pat Garboden
Ozark, MO
RV9-A 942WG (reserved) slider with O-235 panel shown
RV9-A 942PT (reserved) tip-up with O-320
 
kentb said:
I have found a number of time 20 minutes into my flight that the fuel pump is still on. I have been think of putting in a light to remind me to turn if off after takeoff.
I can't hear the fuel pump running. I could add a item to my check list I guess.

Kent
Click to expand...
You must not go right to leaning the engine at cruise with an engine analyzer. Once I level off, I'm pulling the mixture back to run LOP. However, when I see the fuel flow on the EFIS, it's immediately apparent if the fuel pump is still on because the fuel flow will be about 28 GPH!!!! Better than any light.

Kent, you might just remember that the first time you reach to pull the throttle back, turn the fuel pump off. (or a light would work too!)
 
A bit more than idiot lights

At the expense of starting an 'annunciator war', here is my view.

In my RV-10 I have the following warning annunciators:

1. stall
2. EIS warning
3. starter engaged
4. door ajar
5. CO detected

I also have the following indicating annunciators:
1. Fuel boost
2. landing light
3. taxi light
4. strobe
5. nav

I would not do without the warnings. I needed to have these 5 indicators. I wanted LEDs so I had to design the LED circuit anyway (dimming and a Press to test switch offer some challenges for LEDs).

As far as the 'indicators' I debated whether these were necessary, I had the same initial view of Stein and others that the switch indicated on/off state anyway. The reason I finally went with the indicators is simple - I have a fuse block, not circuit breakers for these systems. The indicator not only confirms whether the device is on or off, but also confirms that the fuse is in tact - not possible otherwise. During the day, can you see your nav lights, strobes or landing/taxi lights (I like my lights on in VFR transit lanes during the day), or know whether your boost fuse has failed? Addition of the indicators to the warning annunciator panel was trivial.

A bit more complexity sure, but with a LED reliability of >50000 hrs and minimal maintenance overhead, I don't see ANY disadvantages long term.

Each to his own, YMMV.

cheers,
Ron
-10 finishing
 
There is more than one way

There is always different ways to look at it.

It's funny because its true, guys are not as sophisticated.

PS here is a picture of my dog (after doing some aerobatics):


PSS Randy you where doing so well until you made the Aspirin comment, I'm a Ibuprofen man. :rolleyes:
 
That dog photo is funny! :D I like it. You know they say dogs and their owners usually look alike. ;) Thanks for posting it, made for a good laugh.
 
Dimming warning lights

ClayR_9A said:
Make sure you have a dimmer for any light that will be "on" in normal operation.. like the fuel pump light. I found that the blue LED light that I used was WAY TOO BRIGHT at night.

I added a single switch on the ground side of my warning lights (they all ground through the switch). When the switch is on, current flows through as normal. (bright) When the switch is off, current flows through a resistor that jumps the switch. (dim) Just connect the resistor to each leg of the switch where the wires connect. You'll have to experiment to get the right resistor.

You can also use a pot instead of the switch for a variable dimmer.
Click to expand...

Clay and Paul,

Thanks for the input regarding dimming of warning lights. I have installed 7 LED warning/indicator lights in my panel. I am using an LC-40 dimming unit and have a pot dedicated to the warning lights. I cannot figure out how to connect the warning lights to the dimmer. Each warning light will recieve its power from a separate source.

I note that Clay put the dimmer control on the ground side of the warning lights by using a switch. It would seem that using a pot, like the ones provided with the LC-40 could work as well, but I am unclear about how to hook that up.

The pot supplied with the LC-40 has three solder tabs. They all connect to the LC-40 unit normally. One for 5v power, one for ground, and the other to the "channel" in the unit for that pot. I am trying to figure out which of the tabs I would use to connect the pot inline on the ground side of the LED warning lights. I am thinking that the ground and "channel" tabs might be the two to use, and leave the power tab unused. Although it could be that I should use the ground tab and the power tab????

Can anyone help me understand how to to that.

Tony Johnson
Electrically challanged in Orlando
 
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Tony, you've hit on one of the most frustrating problems of annunciator lamps... how to dim them.

Some lamps are switched to +12, some to ground, and some to either (like flap motors).

Finally, the push-to-test function is complicated in this environment. You can see the lamp array below, along with the test pushbutton. They are for STALL, ENGINE (any engine alarm or low oil pressure sensor), FLAPS and BOOST pump indication.

Since I've modified my flap operation with a limit switch, I may change the FLAPS lamp to a PITOT lamp in the future.

I use the Vx Aviation IL-4A that I developed to solve this problem. It's also available in a 12-channel version. Both are distributed by Aircraft Extras .

Vern Litte -9A

115_1542_1.jpg
 
Tony, for the case where you are dimming on the ground side of all the LED's Which is what I did), you are headed in the right direction using a simple pot between the LED's and ground - I would have no idea how to actually use the LC-40 that way. However, it can be a little bit of trial and error to figure out which pot you want to use. All depends on the LED's and what size resistors you use on each LED. You might want a 500 Ohm Pot, might need a 5K pot - fortunately, in my case, I have a surplus electronics parts place in the area, and I can by assorted pots for less than a buck - I get a few, and play around.

For the pot that you have, put an ohmmeter across the terminals in various combinations and vary the setting - you will quickly figure out which pins to use to get the varying resistance you want.

Paul
 
Pots and ohms

Paul,

I read your message just after coming in for my garage/shop where I did exactly what you suggested. I sought advice today from a guy in a surplus electronics place here in Orlando. The have lots of cool surplus stuff cheap. The very knowledgable guy explained that of the three tabs on a pot, the middle one is the "wiper", and if you put an ohm meter on that and the other two you will find that one of the other two will peg the meter, no matter how much you change the pot. The other tab will show the ohms going up or down as you turn the pot. I did that and determined which of the tabs to use.

I appreciate your advice, it was dead on.

I will try using the pot that came with the LC-40, putting it inline on the ground side.

BTW, thanks for the sonic booms :)

Tony
 
Missed this

This is a rather old thread that I missed. By now those asking for impressions have probably chosen their warning lights, but incase others are still pondering, here are my lights; and which proved to be valuable and which was redundant.

The lights.

EIS; Proved to be reduntant as the 'Message' on the GRT screen caught my attention more than the light. It was replaced by;
LDG LGT; as the switch is a Push On/Push Off on my Infinity Stick grip
and I never knew weather it was On or Off. Got to have!
STARTER; Starter switch is on the infinity grip and I have an 'ARM' switch to avoid crash engaging the starter when the engine is running. Got to have!
FLAPS; The flaps are on my Stick grip and have a latch up position. The light helps avoid leaving them running when they reach up. Saved me a few times on go-arounds. Got to have!
FUEL PUMP: Unlike George, who either has excellent hearing or a quiet cockpit, I can't hear mine. Got to have!
GALLEY; Being and ex-Boeing driver (All Boeings have a 'Galley Power' switch), I just had to have one to take the Mickey. It powers a small electric Frig (refer. to you chaps) in the baggage compartment. A must for instant cold beer on arrival in the hot Outback. Got to have!

Also, notice the panel mount USB plugs (Below the lights) for the two screens. Absolutely invaluable. You won't believe how often you will use it.

Pete.
warninglightsmp8.jpg
 
warning lights

warninglightsno0.jpg
Pete,

I like your warning lights, especially the one that tells you when your beer is cold. I ran out of room with my warning lights. So I omitted the starter warning and the "hot chick in the immediate vicinity" light. Some are "status lights" that tell me when the boost pump is on, flaps are deployed, and the auto pilot is on. The overvoltage light and low oil pressure lights are flashing red. The canopy is solid red. I went with LED's because of limited panel real estate. The advantage of your lights is that they are labeled and backlite. I considered those lights, and actually bought them, but realized that they take up more space that I wanted to allot to them.
 
starter light

f1rocket said:
Second, I have a temporary light that's connected to the starter to tell me when it's engaged. It goes off immediately when the starter switch is released.
Click to expand...

Randy's light could have saved my starter! :eek: When my new starter and starter solenoid are installed this weekend they will be monitored by a light just as Randy mentioned. The best guess is that the solenoid stuck and baked the starter making it unable to crank the engine over on cold mornings. The folks at Skytec told me it takes about 3 minutes with the starter engaged and the engine running to make black tar looking goo come out of the starter case. (For what it is worth there was never a sound or indication to tip me that this had happened.)

Best,
 
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