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gerrychuck

Well Known Member
I currently have a used GRT HX 6.5" system on its way to me. I'm sure I will have many questions with regard to wiring, connecting to other equipment, etc, but right now I am looking for ideas on how to modify my panel to accept the newcomer. My current panel has an insert with all the primary flight instruments in it:

7570915856_e8ec564b93_n.jpg
[/url]P1000280 by gerrychuck, on Flickr[/IMG]

This is secured by a backing flange all the way around the perimeter, which seems to be riveted to the backside of the panel. The insert is attached to the flange via screws through the panel and flange into nut plates.

So?.first off, the options I am looking at only involve messing with that insert, for the sake of simplicity, cost, and my sanity. I see three main options here, in descending order of cost and difficulty:
1) Get a complete new insert cut with exactly the layout of new and old instruments I want. My main concern with this option, which otherwise is obviously going to give the nicest result, is how to get this piece cut accurately without a digital file to work from. I have been through the big box of documents that came with my plane; I did find a final computer picture of the panel, but no indication as to who cut it, so my hopes of someone out there still having a digital file of the panel died there.
2) Make the current 1 piece insert into a 3 piece; the left and right sections would be the remnants of the original, with a new center section made with the appropriate cutouts for the HX, and maybe the autopilot. In the pic above, this would go where the current AI, altimeter, VSI and TT AP are
3) Cut out the middle of the current insert (same area as the new center section would be in option 2) leaving the mounting edge intact all the way around, and cut a new overlay piece with the same cutouts as in option 2. This would be a bit clunkier, but would make the precision needed to cut and mount the new piece a whole lot easier (more in line with my personal abilities).

FYI; in case it is difficult to identify some of the instruments in the panel, from top left they are: ASI, AI, altimeter, compass. Bottom left to right are turn & bank, AP, VSI, and comm radio. If I do a center piece change only, the altimeter will go where the turn coordinator is now, the compass will go to the center windscreen brace, and the AP will go where the compass is. The VSI and turn coordinator will come out. This would just leave the HX in the middle section.

Very interested in any ideas on how best to go about this. I do have the luxury of not having to fabricate a whole new panel due to the foresight of the builder in doing the modular panel insert originally. Sure makes access to the back side of all the instruments easier too. I do want to get this right, though; I'd rather invest some time and money to get a good result than rush to get the goodies installed and have it end up nasty. My plane has been flying very nicely with its old panel for a long time, and it can keep doing so long enough to get this right!
 
I'd go "option 1". Replicating the insert can be done "old school", so you don't need a CAD layout, a waterjet, or any of those things..

Remove the insert. Remove the instruments. Use a scribe to trace the outline of the insert on a new piece of aluminum. Use a bandsaw, files, whatever to trim the piece of aluminum to size. Check fit.

Once it fits, layout the new instruments (and fasteners) on the insert, then cut, drill, sand, polish, paint, refit the instruments, make your connections, and off you go.

I think you'll spend a lot more time on the wiring part of your project.
 
GRT EIS too

If you don't have a GRT EIS, engine monitor computer; I would get that also. It will go well with your new efis and connects with just one wire. You put all your engine probes, etc into the EIS. They have been around 20 years or more and are highly dependable. New cost is around $1000 and used ones are often available. Some of your probes may work with GRT. Ask them.
Am on my 2nd RV6a both had GRT EIS, the 1st had Sport EFIS, the current has 8.4 inch HX with synthetic vision and integrated auto pilot. Installed both and loved both. GRT is the only system I know that can play back the exact flight just as it was, like a black box. Can be easily programmed to record all flights. Just need to keep EFIS power on after flight until file is transferred to the USB thumb drive.
Happy landings,
 
Kyle Boatright said:
I'd go "option 1". Replicating the insert can be done "old school", so you don't need a CAD layout, a waterjet, or any of those things..

Remove the insert. Remove the instruments. Use a scribe to trace the outline of the insert on a new piece of aluminum. Use a bandsaw, files, whatever to trim the piece of aluminum to size. Check fit.

Once it fits, layout the new instruments (and fasteners) on the insert, then cut, drill, sand, polish, paint, refit the instruments, make your connections, and off you go.

I think you'll spend a lot more time on the wiring part of your project.
Click to expand...


Good points! Thanks.
 
RV6airplanePilot said:
If you don't have a GRT EIS, engine monitor computer; I would get that also. It will go well with your new efis and connects with just one wire. You put all your engine probes, etc into the EIS. They have been around 20 years or more and are highly dependable. New cost is around $1000 and used ones are often available. Some of your probes may work with GRT. Ask them.
Am on my 2nd RV6a both had GRT EIS, the 1st had Sport EFIS, the current has 8.4 inch HX with synthetic vision and integrated auto pilot. Installed both and loved both. GRT is the only system I know that can play back the exact flight just as it was, like a black box. Can be easily programmed to record all flights. Just need to keep EFIS power on after flight until file is transferred to the USB thumb drive.
Happy landings,
Click to expand...


Undecided on the EIS. I have a fairly complete set of EI engine instruments on the right side of the panel, including a fuel computer just put in last year (its not in the picture). Replacing them would make the installation a lot more complicated, not to mention my HX is only a 6.5", so screen real estate is limited. As it is, I have pretty complete information which is available at a glance. I do have to cycle through cht's and egt's, but otherwise its all right there. My inclination is to stay with my current setup for now.
 
If you want, keep your instruments and hide the EIS behind the panel. The real advantage here is that the EIS and / or the Hx will monitor all the instruments all the time, and give a flashing red warning if anything gets out of limits.
 
Good point. My current instruments do that as well. They are all electronic instruments with analog readout and digital readout, as well as warning ennunciators when limits are exceeded. Engine rpm (JPI digital tach) CHT's, EGT's, oil temp and pressure, voltage and current, as well as all fuel flow parameters are all covered this way. The EIS/EFIS combo would undoubtedly be a more compact presentation and free up some panel space, but wouldn't really add any significant functionality. I do see the possibility that a warning on the EFIS might get your attention slightly faster than one on the right side of the panel, though, even though those instruments are part of my scan. Having said that, I've had both CHT and oil pressure anomalies in flight (both were connector or sender issues) and the gauges got my attention very quickly in both instances.
 
gerrychuck,
I could possibly help you to generate a cad drawing of your panel. Go to kinkos and get that computer picture scanned. Send me the scan and I can convert it to a CAD version. We can check a few key dimensions along the way to make sure the CAD matches the actual panel.
 
Two things I would do are:

1. Add two powered USB charging ports. (Stein has them.)
2. If you install a handheld GPS, connect it with a DB connector of some type. I hard wired my 496 to the first panel and when I later upgraded the panel, I changed it to a DB9 connector. Now, when I'm ready to replace the 496, I won't have to cut into the wiring as the replacement will get a matching DB9 connector.

Good luck!
 
CATPart said:
gerrychuck,
I could possibly help you to generate a cad drawing of your panel. Go to kinkos and get that computer picture scanned. Send me the scan and I can convert it to a CAD version. We can check a few key dimensions along the way to make sure the CAD matches the actual panel.
Click to expand...

Thanks; that sounds like a great idea! Sorry for the late reply; I've been in Mexico on vacation for the past week. What format does the image need to be in? I think I can convert it to a pdf myself; its a jpg as it sits.
 
N941WR said:
Two things I would do are:

1. Add two powered USB charging ports. (Stein has them.)
2. If you install a handheld GPS, connect it with a DB connector of some type. I hard wired my 496 to the first panel and when I later upgraded the panel, I changed it to a DB9 connector. Now, when I'm ready to replace the 496, I won't have to cut into the wiring as the replacement will get a matching DB9 connector.

Good luck!
Click to expand...


Thanks; those are great suggestions. Right now the only handheld I am using is my Blackberry Passport running Naviator; I have a two port usb adapter plugged into my aux power port on the panel. Panel mounted ports would certainly be a lot cleaner.
 
gerrychuck said:
... Right now the only handheld I am using is my Blackberry Passport running Naviator; I have a two port usb adapter plugged into my aux power port on the panel. Panel mounted ports would certainly be a lot cleaner.
Click to expand...

I recommend some type of handheld GPS to everyone for the simple reason that they have their own internal battery and if they are wired into the aircraft's power, they are always fully charged, in the event something goes wrong with the plane's electrical system. At least with that, you can navigate your way home. One additional advantage is that some have the auto databases. So, God forbid, you put it down somewhere, you can remove the GPS from the panel, install the portable antenna and navigate your way to the nearest road. (Depending on where you land, your cell phone's GPS may not work because the phone needs to get the maps from the cell network. Whereas they are stored in a dedicated handheld GPS.)

For safe flight after a major electrical system failure, all you need is something like the Dynon D1 or D2, which also has its own internal battery. That will keep you upright and the handheld GPS will help you navigate, all without an electrical system. Although airplanes will fly perfectly well without a radio and there are IFR and VFR procedures for flying w/o a radio, you can put an antenna plug in the cockpit so you can connect a handheld radio to an external antenna.

All that assumes you fly IFR. If VFR only, you can make life much simpler.
 
gerrychuck said:
Thanks; that sounds like a great idea! Sorry for the late reply; I've been in Mexico on vacation for the past week. What format does the image need to be in? I think I can convert it to a pdf myself; its a jpg as it sits.
Click to expand...

I assumed you had a paper drawing. A jpg will work fine so just send me what you have so I can see if it is something I can use. Contact me with the email option and we will go from there.
 
duplicating the panel

Another cutting option- A router equipped with an appropriate bearing collar bit would make quick work of cutting the replacement panel. Ask someone with woodworking experience how to set up the cut.
 
Gerry - sometimes the most obvious solution is the best solution... I've found that cutting out the old panel with a jig saw (yes, I know, it sounds scary) to leave a flange around its periphery allows one to cut a new panel and just bolt it to the frame left from the old one.

Making a new panel does NOT require CAD and fancy tooling. I've done several panel inserts the old-fashioned way. Blue masking tape over the aluminum, establish the basic X/Y axes to assure everything is square, then use calipers, steel rule and machinists square to start marking out where the various cutouts will be. Once the marking is all done, put a cutoff bit in the dremel and go to town, cutting "inside the line" to leave some material to be cleaned up with a file to produce a perfect edge.

I shouldn't even admit it, but the process of making new panel inserts is, for me, actually the most enjoyable part of a panel retrofit. It can be a pretty "zen" time.
 
CATPart said:
I assumed you had a paper drawing. A jpg will work fine so just send me what you have so I can see if it is something I can use. Contact me with the email option and we will go from there.
Click to expand...


Wow; sorry for the brain cramp. For some reason I was thinking of the photo of my panel and completely forgot about the computer image I found in my doc box. That's what happens when you reply to a post after a day in the sun (and maybe a few margaritas) in Huatulco. I will definitely scan that image and send it to you. Thanks.


Quick question for people with HX units; where do you have your AHRS mounted?
 
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