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ptrotter

Well Known Member
I am about to start planning my panel and wanted to get some comments on comm gear. My primary flight and engine instruments will be a dual display GRT EFIS system. My primary use for the plane will be day VFR but I want to be able to upgrade to minimal IFR in the future without replacing too much equipment.

My current thoughts are:

Audio Panel - GMA-340
Comm/Nav 1 - SL-30
Transponder - GTX-327
Comm 2 - SL-40

My 1st question is whether a 2nd comm is necessary. I tend to doubt it for my current flight profile, but it doesn't cost that much and it is easier to put it in now than later. How many people actually use a second radio?

Second, I have heard good things about the PS Engineering audio panels. What is the opinion of PS Engineering vs. Garmin? I could use a PMA8000B intead of the GMA-340. It costs a little bit more but seems a bit more sophisticated. My current needs probably don't warrant anything this sophisticated, but I also want to take into account resale value of the plane.

If I do put in a 2nd comm unit, what about the Icom unit? It costs a lot less than the SL-40 and I can't see any downside.

Does anybody have any comments on the advantages, if any, of staying with a single manufacturer for this stuff other that the looks tend to match better.

I know a lot of this is probably overkill, but I like toys :) and it is a lot of fun designing and building this stuff !!

I would rather spend a little more money now rather than decide later that I need to upgrade.
 
GPS? (GRT built in?).

Also can't SL-30 monitor stand-by com frequency? (SL-40 can.. so I'm guessing -30 can too).. if so, second com may not be absolutely needed.. it'd probably be "nice to have" but not "must have" (IMHO).
 
Radomir,


I'm going to start with the built in GPS on the GRT. I'll leave room on the panel for an IFR GPS if I want to install it in the future.

I believe the SL-30 can monitor the standby frequency, but I have found it useful to be able to switch between coms and have a 3rd frequency ready to switch to quickly.
 
Paul,

As you know, I have the ICOMM A-200 as my second Comm. It's a great unit, and does exactly what it is supposed to do very well. Given that, I sometimes think of upgrading to an SL-40 for no other reasons than that the faceplate would match my 430 and 327, and I'd be able to monitor that third frequency. Pretty silly reasons to spend the money, but One of these days, I'll probably do it...

Paul
 
PM1200

My Avionics guy recommended:
SL40
PM1200
and GTX-327

He had no vested interest in any products and so was choosing for me.
They have all performed faultlessly.

In particular, the PM1200- which is designed for noisy cockpits- is excellent.

Pete.
So are the GRTs
 
I love my sl-40

I use the standby monitoring all the time. I even use the built in intercom function and it works great. It also has a neat feature that will take the serial output of a Garmin GPS or even a 296 or later handheld and put the frequencies for your selected waypoint in your standby list.
 
Paul, You may want to consider the Garmin 347 audio...it's new and a direct competitor to the PM 8000, especially if you want to stay all Garmin.
 
Go for the SL-40

Paul:

I'm VRF now but intend to cert-up to IFR in the next several years therefor, I'm also building an IFR bird. I'm installing a single GRT Horizon 1, an SL-30, SL-40 and a GTX-327. I went with the PMA-8000B. I believe PSE makes the Garmin audio panels but, I may be wrong. The 8000 has the leading features IMO.

SL-30 allows full time reception of 2 freqs at once. It also monitors a 2nd nav at the same time. Very handy features. As a result, you get many of the benifits of having 2 com navs. With flip/flop and the ability to monitor a 2nd freq, the 30 may be all the radio one needs. We don't multiplex our transmissions after all, just recievers.

SL-40 has the same ability to monitor the 2nd freq. I've gone back and forth on the need for the SL-40 but, I committed and went through with the buy. I could always sell it though.

With the SL-30 and 40 together, you can effectively listen to 4 freqs at once, heck you can even listen to the Nav for ATIS or FSS if applicable. Wow, 5 recievers all singing at once. Now I have no excuse for not hearing the calls on guard when I bust a TFR because I can always monitor guard along with ATIS, center and the FSS. My head is spinning.....

I recommend the 40 over the ICOM but, only for the following reasons: common faceing with the 30; monitoring 2 freqs; and most importantly, integraton with the GRT. Yes, the 30 and 40 can both be wired into the GRT allowing it to tune both.

In the end, I think you summed it up with 3 points: it doesn't cost that much more (everyone has a unique perspective on this); you like the toys; you would rather do it now than later.

The last was actually the clincher for my own decision. I would rather install the second com nav now and use it infrequently (and have a backup in case the 30 goes tango uniform) than to later find I need or want it and be forced to redo my panel. Lots of down time and expense with that route.

Have fun,

Jekyll
 
Another option;

Put a SL-30 in for the moment, hold back on the SL-40 and if / when you want to upgrade to a GPS/COM2/NAV2? box it is just panel work. I would think about putting the aerial coaxes in for the GPS / COM2 / NAV2 (wing)? whilst access to the panel / floor / wings are a bit easier.

The GRT controlling the frequencies on the SL-30 is good - the download airport 'group' is great - then you have ATIS, Appr, Grnd, Tower all on the SL-30 quick selects.

We went GMA340 - it has more than I need today. The PMA is meant to have superior VOX control - we aren't flying yet so don't know about any issues.

Carl
 
2nd com

An other idea is to install a GPS/Com like the Garmin GNS300XL. This allows IFR GPS and a second com in very little space. The price for the GNS300XL is around $2800. Other GPS/COMS could be less


My panel plan is:

Audio, Garmin or PS
sl 30
GNS300XL
transponder

2 GRTs

IFR backups:
airspeed
Altitude
Turn and Bank coordinator

Jonathan

.
 
another thought

here is another thought about your coms. I for sure want to hear 2 freq. I have owned a plane with two and another with only one com, and my biggest complaint with the entire plane was only having one com. (i love to monitor that second freq. esp. for weather and airport info)
That said, I am planning on dual icoms mainly because i can buy 2 for $1400 totall. That is less than one sl40 or 30. Now i know they will each monitor the standby which gives you 2 coms, but what if the unit goes out or needs repair? This has happened to me with the plane with 2 coms. I had to pull one radio and send it in for repair and i was happy to have the other SEPARATE unit. Even before i sent it in, it was scratchy and not working well all the time, so i had the benefit of a second separate unit that worked.
Now in the garmins favor, i will have a 340 or PS8000, 496, and 327 so the garmin would match nicely and best of all would receive frequencies from the 496 (the icom will not that i know of). That is a nice added feature, but i don't know how much i would use it or miss it since i have never had that before.

For the money, i think i will go with 2 icoms and put my main 8 or 9 freq. in the memory. Still a year or so away.

my 2 cents.

Jeff h
 
GPS

Jonathan,

It is good to see you here on the forum. I hope your project is progresssing well. I went thru the same decision process that you are. I considered the Garmin 300XL because of its attractive price. When I looked further into it, I learned that I would have to add an annunciator unit which runs up the bill a bit.

It has been a couple of years since I investigated the various options, and my memory is a little fuzzy, but I seem to recall that the Garmin 300 is also less capable as an IFR GPS in significant ways. I think that it is certified for enroute only and not approach. If my memory is correct on that point, it is a big factor.

I added up the cost of the Garmin 300 along with the annunciator unit, a seperate Nav radio for VOR, ILS etc. and compared it to the Garmin 430.

In the end, I decided to go with the Garmin 430. The cost was about the same, and the approach certified Garmin 430 with its other NAV fuctions made it the clear choice.

Whatever setup you decide to go with, you should check the prices offered by John Stark of Stark Avionics, (perhaps it is Starks). He has the best prices that I have found. If you find avionics cheaper, please let me know.

I hope this is of some help.

Tony Johnson
 
ANOTHER OPTION

Hi Paul

Your proposed stack is;
Audio Panel - GMA-340
Comm/Nav 1 - SL-30
Transponder - GTX-327
Comm 2 - SL-40

Food for thought, and my suggestion;- instead of the Comm 2 - SL-40 find a used SL-60 GPS/COM. Technically obsoleted by Garmin the SL-60 is same size, and has the SL-40 radio incorporated. No map but a good GPS that can be IFR approved (enroute & terminal only) with minimual cost. For IFR the SL-60 requires some inexpensive annunciator lights, a Waypoint Hold switch and external CDI. Because UPS certified the IFR installation without the requirement for external course input an inexpensive dedicated CDI can be used.
Your panel could be the same as planned except for the addition of two lights a switch and a 2 1/4" dedicated indicator and you would be IFR.

Unfortunately the SL-60 has two drawbacks, learning to use all the capabilities is a chore because the limited number of control buttons/knobs does not make it user friendly, same for database update process.

Of course you could also use an expensive switchable indicator for both the SL-30 and SL-60 and a (expensive) switching annunciator panel but I prefer a second CDI showing the GPS track to/from the final approach fix when shooting an ILS.
 
ANOTHER suggestion

There seem to be so MANY possibilities! Money is always a concern (even for me). That being said, I've settled on the following:

GMA-340 (audio panel)
GNS-530 (GPS/Nav/Com)
SL-30 (Nav/Com)
GTX-330 (xpndr w/mode S)
GI-106 (x2) (one for each Nav input)

Since I couldn't just throw several thousand dollars at this array right now, I simply purchased the mounting trays so that I could complete my panel as funds become available. I also purchased Approach Systems' Pro-G Hub and cables to simplify the wiring. Plan and budget to install what you'd like to have most in regards to avionics. Even if you only plan to fly IFR occassionally, I think you'd still like to have that equipment installed and ready.

Good luck.
Fred
 
Thanks

Hi Tony,

Thank you for the information about needing an annunciator and the cost difference for the 430. I'll give GRT a call and ask them if I need the annunciator. I did think that the GRT could be used as the annunciator, but I should double check. What are you doing for the second COM and second NAV? With my proposed setup I have backup COM and I can navigate from the sl30 or the 300xl.

Does anyone on the forum know if the 300xl has IFR non precision approach landing limitations?

Thanks

Jonathan
 
panel

Jonathan,

I won't have a second nav. The G430 has a separate nav side with VOR, Localizer, GS. It is two radios in one. The approach certification is in my mind critical. I think the future of IFR flying will move toward GPS. It does not require costly ground facilties for the FAA to build and maintain. More and more airports are having GPS approaches. I am betting that if you don't have the equipment for a GPS approach you will not be able to get into many airports which will have only a GPS approach.

The 300XL was and is a good unit, but its time has passed. That is why the price is attractive. Many of the units sold now are reconditioned, I don't think Garmin has made the 300XL for some years now. That raises the question of future service. Althought the 430 has been produced for many years now, it is still the unit of the day. Perhaps soon there will be a new product that will available with more features, but the 430 does everything you could want for my mission profile. If a new unit emerges, the main benefit for me is that it may lower the cost of the 430.

At one point, I actually planned to use the 300XL. I was primarily attracted to it because of the price. It was only after a lot of research that I changed direction.

I like Freds plan to install the trays and wiring setup during the build process and waiting until the last minute to buy the GPS.

I still don't know what to do about an EFIS, but I won't make that decision until the very last. Things are moving rapidly in the EFIS market. I am keeping my finger on the pulse of developments there, so that I will be ahead of the learning curve when it is time to buy.

Since I started planning my panel, I have changed directions many times based upon new products and new information. I suspect that may be the same for you and many other builders. It is one of the fun things about building.

My second nav is an ICOM 200. Simple second radio.
 
Thanks guys, lots of good information. After a lot of thought, I think the GNC300XL is a nice choice. Fairly inexpensive and lots of capability. The external annunciator panel seems to be fairly trivial. I don't think the GRT can provide that function, but I probably don't need it right now anyway as I don't think it is needed for VFR use. I don't need a large display on the GPS as I will primarily use the GRT so the expense of a 430 or 530 isn't justified. Of course most of this stuff isn't justifiable anyway, but it's fun :)

So here is my current thought:

Dual Screen GRT w/Internal GPS and XM Weather (single AHRS)
GNC-300XL
SL-30
PMA8000B
GTX-327 (can't justify the GTX-330)

AOA Pro Angle of Attack
Trio Roll Autopilot
Trio Pitch Autopilot

Falcon Panel Mounted Compass
Flight Data GT-50 Clock/G-Meter (Sort of redundant)

For redundancy (and to fill the panel!):

3.125" Airspeed Indicator
3.125" Altitude
2.25" Tru-Trak ADI (future)
Still room for 1 more 2.25" instrument

I'm still pondring whether to put in an altitude encoder or use the output from the GRT.

The whole thing is well over-kill for my mission profile, but half the fun of this project is designing and building this stuff. As I start paying the bills, some of these things may drop off the list!!!
 
This setup has worked well for me. I bet you could stuff it all into an -8.

img_0938.jpg
 
The nicest panel I have yet seen for an -8 is the one 'N8RV' posted on page 7 of the 'Show us your Panel' Sticky in the -8 section. It makes the most sense when using 'glass' in the -8. Not so much for the actual equipment used, just the overall design.
 
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