pmccoy

pmccoy

Well Known Member
Hi Everyone-

My panel design has gone through many revisions over the past couple of years. But it is now at a point where I am close to calling this one the final version. I would appreciate some input, to make sure I am not missing something that is obvious to everyone but me.

A bit of background, the design is for light IFR. I live in SoCal where after completion of the plane I plan to start training for an IFR ticket. I don't want to shoot minimum approaches, but I would like to punch through the local coastal clouds to go 'VFR over the Top'. I have also purchased an I0-320 with a precision eagle ems ignition and fuel injection system. This will provide automatic mixture, and not require any carb heat (there is electronic mixture for leaning after cruise).

N35PM_Panel.jpg


- Lift Reserve Indicator, on an independent air source.
- TruTrak EFIS w/Auto Pilot III
- Garmin GPS 696 mounted in AirGizmo
- PMA9000EX Audio
- SL30 Nav/Com
- ICom A210 Back Up Com
- Garmin GTX 330 Transponder with traffic to display on 696
- TruTrak EMS BU
- Warning Light for power to Eagle EMS ECU
- Warning Light for Plane Power Alt Off
- Warning Light for B&C SD20 on, with flashing option if drawing over 20amp
- Under radio stack, electronic mixture control for leaning Eagle EMS ECU
- Blue Light on right side is TruTrak passenger button to activate AP hold course and altitude
- Switches from L to R; Battery Master, Electronic Ignition, Primary Alt, Back Up Alt, Avionics Master, Emergency Bus, Pitot Heat, AP Servos
- Switch under Radio Stack; Boost Fuel Pump
- Switches right side; Strobe Lights, WigWag - Landing, Nav Lights, Panel Lights
- Circuit Breakers; Primary Alt., Back Up Alt., Left ECU, Right ECU, Starter

I also have mounted an Andair throttle quadrant which has built in flaps switches as part of the throttle.

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The main issue I see is that you don't have an "IFR legal" GPS. You can't use the 696 as primary navigation for GPS approaches, and you can't use it for DME or ADF.
I'm not sure if your EFIS boxes have a GPS that can be used for this, but it was my impression that those GPS units provide position, but no valid database for use under IFR.

You do have a VOR and ILS with the SL30, and you could use that for some of your IFR needs. But to do the IFR training and checkride you will need a greater variety of approaches. Most importantly, you'll want a IFR GPS for staying current after you get your rating.

You could go with a low end GPS like the 155XL, but by the time you add the cost of that and the extra radio you're not too far from the cost of a 430.
I'm probably way off base on something here, but that's the logic I'm using for my panel design(at the moment).
 
You may want a potentiometer to control your panel lamps rather than a switch, you can turn the panel lamps on with the NAV light switch but should have a potentiometer to control the brightness. I assume your switches for Strobe, Nav, Landing lights are breaker type switches since you don't list seperate breakers for them. What about trim control, probably in the control stick handle I assume.
 
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I agree with Chip. It is a good idea to have a panel mount GPS. Your current thought of "IFR to VFR on Top" is a very limited use of the IFR ticket. Of course coming down from the cloud layer is another story.
 
The main issue I see is that you don't have an "IFR legal" GPS.
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Correct. My first thought was VFR 95% of time. This panel is for "light" IFR only. I want to take IFR lessons, and be able to fly in my own plane. If I have to rent for a few hours to get some time behind a 430W, I might do that. I don't know if I am going to like IFR, so I don't want to shell out the extra money for the 430 right out of the gate.

You may want a potentiometer to control your panel lamps rather than a switch (you can turn the panel lamps on with the NAV light switch) but should have a potentiometer to control the brightness. I assume your switches for Strobe, Nav, Landing lights are breaker type switches since you don't list seperate breakers for them. What about trim control, probably in the control stick handle I assume
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Potentiometer for the panel lamps is a great idea. Yep, I knew I would miss something. I only have five Circuit breakers. The rest are on fuse blocks, which are mounted on piano hinges under the panel. They can swing down and be GROUND accessible for service. My trim is manual.
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the position of your electronic ignition switch. I would not have it in line with other switches. I would position it to the left of your keyed mag switch.
Actually I like toggle switches for all ignitions including mags, but if you are going to use a keyed switch for mags and a separate toggle for EI then I would at least separate it from the other toggles.
 
Pete I have done the lite IFR and wouldn't do it again. Go VFR or IFR panel. If you plan on getting your IFR rating go with a 430W, Advance flight system Difilight II VSVG autopilot, and Advance flight system 3500EE or 4500EE EFIS with XM weather module. Have fun:)
 
Pete -

I know this comes under the heading of "spending someone else's money" (which I generally don't like to do....), but I have to lean in favor of those who recommend an IFR GPS. The "system" is changing very rapidly - approaches that you used to be able to shoot without a DME or IFR GPS are rapidly disappearing, and before you know it, you'll be legal but unable to fly if all you have is VHF Nav. We went without an IFR GPS in Louise's new panel close to two years ago, and while she was able to get her rating with it, there are very few places to where she can actually file IFR.

Paul
 
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the position of your electronic ignition switch. I would not have it in line with other switches. I would position it to the left of your keyed mag switch.
Actually I like toggle switches for all ignitions including mags, but if you are going to use a keyed switch for mags and a separate toggle for EI then I would at least separate it from the other toggles.
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Mel, the electronic ignition switch provides a power line to charge the dedicated battery running the electronic ignition. If you close it in flight, the ECU still runs, just stops charging the dedicated engine battery. The keyed ignition switch is what will ground out and stop the ECU's. L & R like a mag check, or just simply off to stop the engine.

As for the VFR or IFR... I am running out of money. The lite IFR was a compromise to get the plane certified IFR now, but maybe upgrade the panel later. I guess I should rethink this approach. Pick one and make an appropriate panel.

Thanks to everyone who has made comments.
 
You might consider a couple of power points... they do come in handy thats for sure.
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Are you talking about 12v DC plug in adapters? You are right, they would come in handy, and I didn't think about them. Thanks.
 
pmccoy said:
Are you talking about 12v DC plug in adapters? You are right, they would come in handy, and I didn't think about them. Thanks.
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Yes sir... I use them almost every flight for charging my cell phone or my Son's game boy etc... Even need the lap top every now and then. I put one on the top corner on each side.
 
Get a Garmin 430W to replace both of your radios ... u will be much happier in the end.
 
Pete,

My only comment is that the instruments are pretty close to the panel edges at the top. Make sure that you have sufficient room behind the panel that there won't be clearance issues. You don't note whether you are doing slider or tipup, but with the tipup there is some overlap between the canopy frame and the panel (about 1/2 inch). And make sure that your instruments will be clearly in your field of view with the canopy down (if a tipup) or the glareshield in place (if a slider). You've probably already done this, but just in case....

greg
 
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re IFR--as I recall, when you certify the plane, you don't certify re IFR--once the plane is flying, if the plane and you meet IFR requirements, your good to go. I also agree that 430W would be what you want. leave room for a 2nd radio when you have more $$$, have a hookup with splitter for handheld and you have 2 good transmitters. lbb
 
re IFR--as I recall, when you certify the plane, you don't certify re IFR--once the plane is flying, if the plane and you meet IFR requirements, your good to go. I also agree that 430W would be what you want. leave room for a 2nd radio when you have more $$$, have a hookup with splitter for handheld and you have 2 good transmitters. lbb
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Ok, so I don't have the money to buy a 430 now... but maybe in a couple of years. After buying the engine, I need a financial break for a bit. So, with that said..... I thought I had to have the plane meet IFR requirements at initial certification. Is that true?
 
No expert here Peter, but I believe after talking to others that went through the process, you can start with the plane as VFR. At a later date you can upgrade the panel to IFR, but you have to go through the test phase of flying off your hours again.

This is where your local DAR comes in handy, because it seems like the rules change and are different depending on region.

I'll be interested to know the answer to your question as well since I was considering doing the same once I get to that point.
 
pmccoy said:
Ok, so I don't have the money to buy a 430 now... but maybe in a couple of years. After buying the engine, I need a financial break for a bit. So, with that said..... I thought I had to have the plane meet IFR requirements at initial certification. Is that true?
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No, the plane doesn't have to meet the IFR requirements at initial certification.
 
I don't think your panel is "IFR LITE". Yeah if you win the lotto, spend it all on avionics. I got my IFR with a single "clunker" nav/com/gs. No GPS, no DME. You have to be able to demo 2 different approaches. With the SL 30 you can do a ILS and a VOR. There is no current reg requiring a GPS approach. You can use any handheld for "situational awareness (down to ILS Minimums) as long as you have a Panel mounted Nav/gs. I would go with what you got. Looks great. Should be a pretty sweet panel.
 
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