lostpilot28

lostpilot28

Well Known Member
I'm getting close to finishing my RV (I think) and want to paint it myself. I've read a lot of the great posts on VAF about equipment and technique and have found some really good information elsewhere.

Getting technical information on paint/primer isn't hard to find, but what I'm looking for is a non-professional perspective. Basically, I want to know what paint is easiest to apply (or should I say the most forgiving for a novice to apply?). I'm probably going to go with the HF HVLP route (Thanks Frankh for the very useful info!) and a single-stage top coat.

At first I was thinking of using something like Jetglo, or PPG Concept...but I recently found a thread here on VAF about waterborne paint by AFS. It looks good on paper, but is it easy to apply, long lasting, with a deep shine?

Any info on paint systems or products would be very much appreciated. I think this will be a lot of work, but I'm looking to mitigate that with a simple to use product.
 
I painted my RV-6 with Centari catalyzed enamel (outside) and Imron (inside), so I'll jump in here.

For what it is worth, basecoat/clearcoat systems are thought to be easier for novices to work with. You make your mistakes on the color coat, sand them out, then use your newfound knowledge to do a better job spraying the top coat.

That said, spraying the paint isn't really the difficult part of painting. Sure, you need to spend a couple of evenings practicing on scrap (or your garbage can), but the actual painting really isn't the hard part.

What is hard is prep work, from creating a very clean shop to providing good lighting, to making sure your surfaces are oil and dust free.

I have a friend who is painting with the AFS products and his results look great. But his paint is only a few months old and has never seen direct sunlight, so there is no telling how it will look in 10 years.

Going back in time, Van's got a great deal from Cardinal Paints about 10 years ago and started using that brand on their aircraft. Sounded great, but faded badly over time. That was an expensive (in time, anyway) lesson to learn.

There are horror stories in the canard aviation groups where several builders tried the latest, greatest paint, which was thought to be *ideal* for their aircraft. Unfortunately, it had a bad tendancy to start peeling off in big chunks once it got chipped. Eventually, several builders had to chip off (not sand) their entire paint jobs and start over again. That's a horrible thing to have to do on a flying airplane.

Anyway, my suggestion is to stay away from largely unproven products because there is no way to know how they will hold up over the long run, and an aircraft paint job is a big expensive job that you don't want to repeat in just a few years.

Regarding brand preference, I'd pick the popular brand (Dupont or PPG) has a distributor closest to you and choose the most suitable (for you) of their products.
 
I'm currently taping and papering my fuse for paint, going with the afs system. I went to cashmere and checked the paint myself and it looked great(was on three different airplanes there), was given a demo and the stuff is trully amazing, very safe and fool proof for the novice. In fact it works better if you are novice, because the process is different than regular paints. I should be painting the primer tomorrow, with the top coat over the weekend, hopefully.
 
RE:AFS H2O Paint.......

Sonny

Like you I am in the final stages of a 3.5 year build of an RV7A and I am dealing with the paint ????????????????????/

Paint myself ....... go naked (Sharpie is the best) ...... pay out big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to a paint shop ............. make a deal with a painter to squirt the plane if I do the prep........ what paint system to use ....and it goes on................

During the build I primed about 75 plus percent of the interior with one part poly from AFS. It has held up great (actually tough...... real tough), easy to shoot, ease of clean up. The main problem was my non oil 30 gal compressor wouldn't keep up with the pressure need of the HVLP gun.

A number of months ago I was able to contact Clark F. who painted his plane with AFS. He sen t me the following email and we also had a phone confab. He gave me some great advice......

#7/2005
Clark Friedgen [clarkfriedgen at sbcglobal.net]
I took ownership of this RV6A in September of last year, and I have never stopped doing upgrades to it since. The plane was flying well when I bought it, including a nice VFR panel with a vacuum system and a simple Val radio. It runs an 0320 E2D, which climbs and cruises excellent! After doing my insurance mandated flight instruction in it, I have since put in about 25 hours flight time. It's so fun! The workmanship of the builder is above average according to some of the RV guys at EAA local chapter 14 in San Diego.
I have since added a quick drain oil plug, as well as completing the carburetor heat system. I also later added more goodies to the panel including a Garmin 295 GPS and an ECC intercom. The big job was painting the plane (the builder flew with only the fiberglass parts painted), which was two months of hard but satisfying work. I felt more connected to my plane by painting N4361V myself (in the homebuilder's spirit). I used the non toxic AFS paint system and it came out great. Now I'm just waiting for better weather to go bore holes in the sky with my friends.
Clark Friedgen cell phone 619-920-4830

For me it boils down to the fact I want to build this entire plane...and I am way over budget and thus must paint the plane to keep my wallet happy. I will use AFS ( now known as Stewart Finishing Systems ...... http://www.stewartsystems.aero/ ) After using the one part poly for the interior I feel reasonably confident that the two part should be as easy to use.

I have read most all the forums on this topic and the advice ranges from let a pro do the job .... to you built the plane you will have the necessary talent to paint the plane. You will also get a lot of advice on what paint system to use....

With that said AFS is the one I choose way back because.....Safe to me and the environment, ease of clean up, great advice from the original owners of the AFS Company, great info from Andy K. ... http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/Paint/AFS-Painting/afs-paint.htm .... , and the folks at Stewart's the new owners of AFS sent me out a video showing the process.

Right now I am finishing up the fiberglass prep of the cowl/emp tips/gear fairings, for paint. I also fabricated my own intersection fairings/ram air induction snout/VS-HS fairing.........When this is done i will be at that point of painting........

Frank @ 1L8......RV7A ....... last 995 details ..........
 
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AFS/Stewart Systems paint

lostpilot28 said:
At first I was thinking of using something like Jetglo, or PPG Concept...but I recently found a thread here on VAF about waterborne paint by AFS. It looks good on paper, but is it easy to apply, long lasting, with a deep shine?
Click to expand...

Sonny,
I have yet to squirt a single drop of paint, but I have the AFS primer on hand for when I get ready. I too contacted Clarke F. and had a nice 30 minute chat with him on the phone. He had never painted before, but got a good finish for a first timer. I have also talked to Dan Stewart at Stewart Systems and he is great to work with. If you haven't talked to him, I recommend you do. He will send you a DVD of them painting an airplane and explains the whole process. The main selling point for me is the safety aspect of the waterborne paint (non-flammable, non-explosive, non-toxic) and also the easy clean up.
Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Thanks for the feedback, guys. I may have to give the AFS guys a call. If I can maybe get some kind of durability reassurance I may go that route. I'm surprised that I didn't see more replies from guys using the big names. I wonder if any commonly used paint systems are truely easy to work with. :confused:
 
Paint

I am close to finishing my RV7-A. Painting will be done, by me, after I fly off the hours. I know it would be better to paint while in the building process but that would add another year to fly the plane.

I am going to Tullahoma, TN next Saturday to take a course from Loehle aircraft. They advertise a real wet look that is very lasting. They have examples of planes painted with their system that are into the double digits in years since painted, and still look like new paint. See their website at www.loehle.com.

If you want, I will report more after my class.
 
I went with DuPont Imron and have learned much while painting. I learned that I am not much of a painter, but have also learned that by paying attention and asking questions, you can get a pretty good paint job. It took me three attempts to get the tail to an acceptable level of quality. (Orange peel and hvlp guns go hand in hand...) I can now shoot reasonably well without having to sand it off and do it again. I have now gone back and sanded down some of my earlier work since I have discovered how to make it better. This is what "experimental" is all about!
 
paint

Thought I'd jump in.
I am a "semi pro" painter, and have learned the hard way when it comes to materials and application. I am right in the middle of painting my plane (9A), so all is fresh in my mind. It seems there are as many ways to do this job as there are products on the market. Repainting a flying aircraft, with a strip job to boot, is a big, big job, so I chose to use materials that I was familiar with, and had proven to me to last over time. I am using Variprime over scuffed and cleaned aluminum as the etch and adhesion promoter, with single stage urethane top cote. Believe me, products proven over time. I am sure there are some great new products out there, I just don't feel comfortable with them yet, as I have had so much good luck using this system on autos for years. Imron, and other single stage urethanes are well suited for aircraft. Some tips below.

Shoot the belly of the fuse before you flip it...Much easier, and you can install your belly whips and such for good. Back mask the belly when you shoot the rest of the fuse.

prep fiberglass parts with Du Pont hi build primer filler (2 part) and wet sand to 320. Top coat follows. It is a great pinhole filler, work it to 220 grit to get the pinholes, then wet sand with a flexible block.

I use HVLP turbine sprayer. My system is Lex Air, and is excellent. The air is hot, so to avoid orange peel from too fast of a flash, go down at least one reducer speed, or add retarder to slow the flash. Light tack coat to start, let it almost flash. Open that gun up to wide open if you have to to get a good wet second coat. practice this with your gun first, and don't be bashful!! Modern urethanes are pretty easy to apply to vertical surfaces without runs.
Runs are easy to repair, orange peel is tough!!

A time consuming, but very doable, even outside.

Good Luck!!!
Chris
 
<<I'm surprised that I didn't see more replies from guys using the big names. I wonder if any commonly used paint systems are truely easy to work with.>>

I'm shooting PPG basecoat/clearcoat as described in another recent thread. Just got started, but so far I'd call it easy to shoot. The main advantage to using any top brand in wide use is the knowledge base, both from the manufacturer and from the users. My local PPG distributor is airplane friendly (manager has shot four airplanes for others) and everyone is extremely helpful. If the local Dupont or SW guys were the same, I might have gone there. Follow the specified proceedures/product combinations from any major and the results will be reliable.

Not arguing for base/clear BTW; lots of pretty airplanes with single stage topcoats. In this case base/clear was dictated by the scheme and color choices; pearls and metallics are clearcoated. As Kyle mentioned, there is one big advantage to clearcoat. You can wetsand and buff the finished panels to perfection.

FWIW, I'm old fashioned and see no sense in painting the assembled airplane after flying it. Agree with Chris, and in fact just painted the fuselage belly (the skin panels provide a natural break line). Next it goes on the wheels, gets an engine, gets the cowl fitted and finished, and then I'll shoot the rest of the fuselage and the vertical tail. Wings will get painted on a rotating stand. No way I'm gonna prep and shoot half the airplane while laying on a creeper....and later, when it flies, it's done.

No experience with AFS. One of my buddies is shooting Lohle now and it is giving him fits, but in fairness he has no painting experience and even less patience. No matter what you choose, painting is another skill to be learned.
 
wet sand the AFS?

Fellas,

not ready to paint for a year but have a question

Can you wet sand the AFS paint to get a real shine?

Also figure it must be practical to do a 2 color paint job, am I right?

I'll take a look at Oshkosh but thought I'd ask here.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies...I called the AFS people and they're sending me a DVD of their process. I was told that there are several aircraft that have had this paint applied since the early 90's (if I remember correctly) and they're holding up nicely. I'll watch the video when I get it and let everyone know what I think.
 
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