Woo, car v plane painter war
RV7Guy said:
I don't understand where all of you are getting the idea that show quality painters are going load your plane with material and paint.
George, you clearly don't know any good show quality body people and painters. A real show quality guy will have fabricated parts and VERY little fillers because they want the job to last forever. (
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Additionally, I will put a show car guy up against a day to day airplane painter any time for a lighter finish. These guys know their materials and get the most bang for the buck. (comment
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It is what you do with the paint you use that matters.
A typical base coat clear coat is not that heavy............... After wet sanding everything and 3 stage buffing we probably lost a coat of the clear. I have less than $2k in materials.
As has been mentioned, the prep is the key. And, unless you are very knowledgeable in glass and prep work or getting some guidance from your painter I will guarantee it will not be to their standards.
WHY ARE YOU PICKING ON ME?
First I did not mean to malign "Custom Car Show Painters". I don't care really and don't think most RV'ers care what title a painter has. King of all painters means nothing if they charge too much. I think most just want a nice paint job on their plane, at a reasonable cost. The thread stated with a $9,000 labor quote. That is where the car thing came in.
As far as skill, plane or car painter, good is good. Now the guys that do airbrush, pin striping, flames an so on, they are artist. Most painters are not artist, they are skilled technicians. It does take skill and practice and they're worth their wage. However some painters charge as much as they can get, and they are not really worth it. There is only so much the painter can do with a basic base color or trim. With modern paints, its easy to get good finishes.
Facilities like down draft paint booths are cool and do add quality. The original thread was about a $12,000 hanger paint job. You can paint in the drive way if you want and still get OK results, but having a paint booth is nice. With the plane apart, wing, tail you can get the whole thing in a paint booth, which is handy. Painting upside down adds difficulty. (BTW some airport authorities will ream you a new one if you try to paint in your hanger.)
Applying basic paint jobs should not cost that much, period. However that does not stop them from asking for $$. The paint systems are so good its not hard to do a nice job now a days. However it does take LOTS OF TIME. As I suggested prep of fiberglass can cut cost. The problem is paintesr who got burned quoting a RV with "paint ready" cowl and fairings may be skeptical of your paint ready parts. Fiberglass as it comes in the kit needs quite a bit of massaging to get ready.
To answer, I do know show painters and worked at body shops when I was in high school. Of course back than a show quality paint was 15-20 coats of lacquer, hand rubbed between coats.
My point about CAR painters, they do use filler. Just watch any car show, "American Hot Rod", "Muscle Car", they all use filler to get every panel to line up. Showing all the SEAMS, BUTT JOINTS and RIVETS on my plane is cool to me. Some car guys (read some) may talk you into filling things that don't need filling. A friend's RV got the bondo treatment for a car painter. Also car guys may not know about Plexiglas. It has to be protected from all chemicals, covered 100% in and out.
You mention color sanding and "probably lost a coat of the clear", so you mean you had extra material to sand defects out. Its not a weight thing but on a small plane. We are talking a few pound. However on a jet it makes a difference. That is why they use single stage paints.
Buffing paint out on a plane is tricky. The skin is soft and moves if pushed on between ribs or fames, which make a high spot. Add joggles and seams, it means mostly hand sanding, slowly and carefully. A friend hand color wet sanded his whole plane, a small single seater. He was in his hanger for what seemed like days wet sanding, with a bucket of water, sandpaper and shriveled blue wet hands. His hands where blue from the paint, not because he was cold.
Some car guys (some not all) only use base/clear, because that is what they know. Nothing wrong with that. The top of the line single coat aerospace finishes can save labor and look good, very good. It's a preference of mine to use JetGlo. I don't know the price now; it seems all paint has skyrocketed in price. Even if you do it yourself and labor is free, do you want to spend hours, days wet sanding? Jetglo goes on and has high gloss, shines, no sanding, no second clear coat.
JetGlo is a single coat system, not requiring color sanding/buffing or clear coat. It looks fantastic and can be buffed and repaired.
JetGlo is NOT cheap and does require you know how to shoot it right the first time. (That's why I hired a painter to shoot the paint
.) With the base/clear you can sand/buff out defects like runs.
There are probably more colors available in the base/clear systems. If you want pearl and metallic flake, it locks you into even fewer paint systems. I'd avoid fancy paint additives. It makes it harder to match touch up repairs. For wild paint jobs, flames and graphics, base/clear may be the only way to go.
An amateur with good equipment and practice can do a nice paint job (no offense to custom painters). It's not top secret or take Vincent Van Gogh ability. Just good practices and skills, which are easily learned. The BIG caveat of doing it yourself is NOT breathing chemicals in. Get a fresh AIR MASK and cover all your skin. Of course clean dry air of sufficient quantity is a challange. I have not used any of the HVLP systems, but the price is not bad.
The big down side of doing it yourself, you can blow it, which means you have to strip the paint and start over.
This is where the Pro painter comes in. Painters who really are in the business, not working out the back of their truck, will warranty their work. If it starts to peal or bubble they will make it right. It happens, even to Pros. Just be sure you pick a painter who stands by their paint job and will not leave town. That was another friends sad experience.
I disagree that fiberglass prep is hard or beyond an average builder. You say it will not likely meet the painters standards? Who cares, get another painter that will work with you. Some painters have good reasons for not wanting you to do prep, because they feel they are liable for the finish. If the paint bubbles or peals off down the road due to your poor prep work, they don't want to be responsible.
The problem with painting RV is its small planes and only bring in so much money. Big paint shop have only so many slots. A big TWIN in the paint bay makes more money than a RV. You may be taking up the spray booth from a more lucrative job. Its a business and they want to make money. So some big shops may charge more if they are busy. Again they may really not want your little plane, unless you pay big bucks, supply and demand. That's where going out of town may pay off.
The simpler the paint job the easier to repair or match if needed, and it will cost less (at least it should). If you don't need a repair or touch up, than it does not matter. Hope your pearl, metal flake paint job turns out great. Sounds like it will be awesome.
