Engine and P-mag experts,

did any of you find out allready THE BEST P-mag timing for an angle valve IO360 A1B6 with 10:1 pistons or near optimum without EIC ?
Michael R., can you report NEWS about your new time settings ?

What I have:
RV-8
IO360 A1B6 with 10:1 pistons
Dual P-mags 113-series
Jumper OUT (B-Curve) timed 4? Past TDC
No EIC (No Electronic Ignition Commander)
Hartzell BA


I tried to follow the threads as good as possible but couldn?t find the answer :confused::confused::confused:
And sorry for no perfect english

Thanks
Michael
Germany
RV-8 Cloud Dancer
 
The default timing for an angle valve engine is 20* BTDC. With the jumper out, you are starting at ~30* BTDC, which you reduced to 26* by clocking your P-mags. That is still too much for your engine.

Adding the jumper will help because that configuration starts at around 26* BTDC.

I would suggest you contact Emag about sending your P-mags in for a software upgrade, if you do not have version 40 (or higher).

With or without the software update, you can connect a PC to each ignition and adjust them to match your engine. Or buy one our EICommander's from Aircraft Spruce and tune & monitor them with that.

Either way, I wouldn't run you engine with the current timing.
 
Thanks Bill,
I appreciate your help very much !

I´ve sent the P-mags back last winter for a Flat-Free-Checkup, so maybe a newer software is installed.
Is clocking the P-mags 4 or 6° past TDC and Jumper IN an option ?
Or time to TDC and pull the MP tube ?
Have to learn how to attach the mags to the PC - I will search for threads for this in the RV-Community.
BTW I had the Jumper IN clocked to TDC till the last two 30min flights but was not pleased with that anyway (rough engine in higher altitudes)

Don´t want to get the last Ponny´s out of the engine but want to run it right, safe and smooth.

Thanks
Michael
 
The version number is written on a small sticker, which is on the side of each P-mag. Check there for your version number. I doubt you are at version 40 because that came out in late summer of 2014.

This version fixes a very odd lost timing issue that only a very few of their customers experienced. This only happened on the ground, during startup, and would have been caught during the pre-flight check.

The other change was to fire the plugs 4* PAST TDC during the starting cycle. This helps with starting when a lightweight prop is installed and allows you to set the timing mark at TDC.

Wiring for a serial connection is easy. I often recommend builders run all the wires into the cockpit, just in case they need to use the EICAD program or think they might install an EICommander later on.

See the P-mag manual on how to wire for the serial connection. If you bring all the wires into the cockpit, bring in a tach line as well, just in case you elect to install an EICommander. If you think you will never install one, there is no need to run the tach signal line.

For the ground, we found it best to bring the ground line in from the P-mag and not use a ground off the ship's main ground bus.

Once you bring up the EICAD program, you can set the timing and advance limit. Read the manual and make sure you understand it. Basically, the timing starts at 26*, so you want to put in a negative offset to get it down where you need. The P-mag works in increments of 1.4* so you probably want to enter a negative 5.6, which will bring your timing down to 20.4* BTDC. Check your engine manual to make sure that is the timing you should have! Then set the max advance, start conservative as you can always change it later. For new engines, I recommend setting the advance limit to the desired initial timing so it works like a standard mag. Once the engine is broken in, then you can change it and let it advance. (The other option is to plug the vacuum lines and stay low during engine brake in.)

Once adjust the P-mag with the EICAD program, leave the jumper off. All software changes to the P-mag are made to the "B" configuration, thus you don't want to force it to the "A" configuration by putting the jumper in.

Good luck!
 
One other thought. You can wire your plane for the EICommander, complete with extra wire and two row DB15 connector, as described in our manual. Then make a jumper with a matching DB15 connector and two DB9 connectors, one for the right side and one for the left side. That will let you tune your ignition from the cockpit any time you want.

One minor detail, the EICAD program only lets you make changes when the engine is not running, unlike the EICommander.
 
Bill,

very helpful thoughts !
Think there is a sticker which says FW291 or FW293 can´t remember exactly, but know I do not have the V40 version as I asked Brad allready.
Engine has 100h SOH
Manual says 20° BTDC and there is also the mark on the gearring

What I did today:
Put the JUMPER IN and timed to 6° PAST TDC with the Blow In method - both mags showed green.
Engine started great and run smooth.
The RPM drop on both mags were 60RPM (from 1760 to 1700 or maybe a 10 RPM difference)
Never had this before - since, I´ve seen allways just a 20 RPM drop (from 1750 to 1730), so that´s new to me - what do you see or expect ?

But, could not testfly because of too much wind, so nice weather to read more about EICAD and EICommanders - not sure if I want more electronic´s - but ????

Thanks
Michael
RV-6 SOLD (imported from PA)
RV-8 FLYING (imported from TX)
 
EIC wire question

Bill, the timing of your comments is perfect. Yesterday I pulled 4 sheilded wires for Pmag terminals 2 and 3, plus one for tach. The Plead switch ground goes to the firewall forest of tabs (B&C flat cable to engine case). For EIC function, why shouldn't I use the Plead ground rather than run a separate ground through the firewall to the engine? Thanks in advance.
 
Bill, the timing of your comments is perfect. Yesterday I pulled 4 sheilded wires for Pmag terminals 2 and 3, plus one for tach. The Plead switch ground goes to the firewall forest of tabs (B&C flat cable to engine case). For EIC function, why shouldn't I use the Plead ground rather than run a separate ground through the firewall to the engine? Thanks in advance.

Larry,

They do two different things.

The P-lead (P-mag pin 4) stops the ignition from firing but the P-mag is still powered up. You can come off P-mag pin 4, go to your kill switch, and then to the "forest of tabs". That is a typical installation.

P-mag Pin 1 MUST go to an engine case bolt (separate bolts for separate ignitions, just in case one bolt backs out). I can't stress this enough.

DO NOT run the Pin 1 P-mag ground to the forest of tabs. This keeps your ignition electronics alive and is the return path for the internal generator.

When/if you install an EIC, run a second ground wire from the P-mag pin 1 all the way to the EIC. Remember, you are dealing with a serial computer connection and we have found that people who run this ground through their "forest of tabs" tend to get erroneous timing divergence alarms on the EIC. We believe that is because of all the "noise" from the other electronics in the aircraft. Running and independent ground solves that problem.
 
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