M

Mark Barker

I'm New Here
HI folks --
I am looking for any information, references, or background on Outlaw Aircraft Engines in Florida. I am building a Christen Eagle, and have talked to them about building me an engine. He says he builds them for a lot of the RV crowd but did not have specific names he could give me.

I need an IO-360 A1D and of course being experimental I can cut corners a little, but I really want to make sure I am dealing with a good shop. As always, concerned with sending a pile of money from Alaska down there, and making sure I get a good deal. Talking to him on the phone I am satisfied, but I would like to hear input from some of you. --- or other options.

You can either reply here or directly to my email at [email protected].

Thanks letting an "Eagle guy" post here.
Mark
 
If its too good to be true, Free lunch anyone?

Outlaw? Hummmm interesting name. :rolleyes:

Heres a thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=9419&highlight=Outlaw

Just be careful. I mean this is airboat stuff. There is NO FREE LUNCH. There are other threads of people asking about Outlaw and no one responded.

Lycoming has, for example, very specific things that MUST be replaced during any overhaul or repair, like rod bolts and nuts. I could see an airboat guy going on the cheap and re-using things. If he tells you he put new bolts in, I'd want proof. Rod bolts are HIGH fatigue items, and its NOT gratuitous to replace them; its a matter of life and death to be blunt.

Also re-using say valves for example that are "serviceable" may get you into the air cheaper, but the engine may not (will likely not) make TBO (or 100 hours). The old pay me now or pay me later.

With that said he has no pipe line to cheaper NEW parts than say Mattituck, so if its a few grand cheaper than?????? Beware. There is just no getting around it, parts are "X" amount. You get what you pay for.

I doubt he has the facilities to TRULLY overhaul a crank, rods or case per FAA standards. It takes NDT (non-destructive testing) methods and special procedures and machine to overhaul these parts safely. If he sends them out, it cost what it cost you and me, expensive.

Log books? If it had a prop strike and you did not know it, you can have sudden catastrophic failure; that is a fact.

Mattitucks may gross a grand or two over parts cost on an all NEW 20 grand engine? With over-head, labor they may make a $1000? I know you may not believe it but $20k for a new Lyc (clone) is a bargain. First everything is brand new, has a warranty and is tested. That has value! If you sell you plane 10 years from now it will have better resale with an engine of some pedigree verses an airboat engine from Outlaw.

Just because we are experimental does not mean we want to ignore certified standards when it comes to our certified engines. The "experimental" Clones we buy are basically to certified standards or higher. You don't want to mess with less then that standard with your engine, in my opinion.

Accessories, Fuel injection, Carbs and mags are all expensive to overhaul. Are you getting overhauled parts or what ever he pulled off a salvaged engine. To overhaul a component (with new parts, seals, floats, jets, diaphragm) is expensive. No way around it.

Like one post in the the thread, its worth a LOOK. Also there have been other threads and not many people know any thing about him.

Again if its TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE............No free lunch. Parts, part reconditioning/inspection all cost money.

So if he says he sold engines to RV guys, than get their name and call them. I am skeptical. This is you LIFE after all. Engine failures can be fatal. DO you want to cheap out on this? Having parts of unknown origin, time and condition in my aircraft engine is a risky issue. Air-boat, no problem.

Now if he buys engines on salvage from planes that say where flipped by winds and just turns them over, for a slight markup, that may be a deal. If the engine is airworthy and does not need an overhaul, has good verifiable times (log books) than it could be a great deal. Well CUT THE MIDDLE MAN OUT. You can bid on those insurance salvage auctions.

This Gent I am sure is a nice guy but unless he has some special pipe line to good cores (used engines) below market value and below cost new parts, than how can he provide both quality (safety) and value (cheap). One or the other will suffer.

If he is not an A&P or AI than that would be a red flag.

Go spend the best $21.95 you spent in a long time and buy this book:
http://www.sacskyranch.com/pubsem.htm

EM.jpg


This will give you knowlege to make sure you get what you are paying for. I have heard of other horror stories before so go at YOUR own risk.
 
Last edited:
I bought my carb from them. It was sold as having a freash OH, which it did, for an airboat. The only AD on my engine was on that carb because of the composit float, which the carb still had in it. After sending it out to get yellow tagged, all is good.

Some time back I talked to them about building up an engine for me and they turned me down. Of course, it might of been the engine I was spec'ing that turned them off. Apprently good for airboats but they didn't want the liability of putting it in an airplane.
 
I've never heard of them. There were plenty of salvage planes here as well as engines removed from damaged aircraft from the hurricanes the past few years. Living in Alaska, I would be more inclined to buy a clone with a warranty.
If you give me more specific info, I may be able to research it for you.
I live about 35 miles north of Tampa but have contacts throughout the state.
Let me know if I can help.
 
I've heard similar statements about homebuild aircraft in general. Including engines, fuel, composites vs. aluminum, avionics, lean of peak, primer...
You just can't buy your way to 100% safety or perfection. :rolleyes:
I've got a few OutLaw parts on my o-360. I guess if I wanted a waranty on my engine, I'd want one on my entire aircraft. In that case I'd be flying a new spam-can.
 
Last edited:
Outlaw

Gary is a good guy and an honest guy. I have dealt with him when we needed a FI servo, spider, a C rod, an accessory case, a sump, etc. If you ask questions, he will give you honest answers, including if a part will pass overhaul for yellow tag certification. He sends his components to Aircraft Specialities for inspection and only sells yellow tagged items to the aviation community. As I told a new RV builder from Canada recently, you can save money buying a core, sending out parts for overhaul/certification and, with the assistance of a knowlegable A & P and the correct tools, reassemble the engine yourself. The key is to have an understanding with the core provider of recourse on key components that may not pass inspection(Case, Crank, Rods, Lifters, Cam-Although at TBO, I would replace the cam). Education is part of this "hobby" and learning how the heart of your bird is constructed is fun and not difficult, with the proper balance of assistance and patience.

Recently Gary quoted me a fair price on a complete bendix FI system for a 6 banger lycoming. After pricing the overhaul for this system, I compared the final price to the Airflow Performance 6 banger kit. It seems that the AP kit will be a better value, but I am still undecided. Any input is appreciated.

TNSTAAFL, but with a little scrounging, research and guidance, you can get a good core, save thousands of dollars, learn more about your bird and still fly safe.

Chime in Pierre!
 
Last edited:
Cheap engines in South FL

I live in Palm Beach County, FL. As one poster already noted, you can't buy perfection. However, you can increase your odds to the plus side.

I have one neighbor who found an "overhauled" FI -540 for $12k. It showed painted over corrosion on the case, etc.. Once it was made to run, had multiple valve spring failures, etc..

Have another neighbor that found an "overhauled" carb'ed -540 for $18k. Unequal CHT's, EGT's, think it has finally settled down, not sure.

Another acquaintance had a carb'ed O-320, rod bolts broke in flight, but engine kept running, which was good.

Ask the right questions. If you can't get the right answers, in a credible manner, move on.
 
Salavge and takeouts

A friend of mine found a 1500 hour 0-320 at Wentworth for $7950 complete with Slicks, carb and vacuum pump and fuel pump. Air Plains in Wichita also does a lot of 172 conversions to 180 HP and routinely sell takeouts. My buddy's building a -4 and thats what the engine is for.

You can do your own major as we did, send all the parts out to be inspected and yellow-tagged and save a bunch. Or go and build your new engine under supervision over several days and hear it run and take it home.

It's Experimental aviation and you're so fortunate to do it any way you want and if you have the bucks, a good reman from the vendors on here is every bit the engine that a new one would be. Old timers have told me many times that a reman is better than a new one because it hasn't cracked the block or a cylinder and that all the starts and stops up to temperature and back down have "seasoned" the case and if it ain't cracked in those 2000 hours, it ain't going to. A new case has yet to prove itself, whereas the "seasoned" one already has ;)

Regards,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.