[N941WR]

We all know that big engine builders have engines running at Reno every year but how about some of the alternative engines?

The Pond racer had Nissan V6's. Bummer it crashed and burned, it was way cool!

One of the scale Mustang run a modified boat V12.

How about Subbie engines?

Any others?

 

[rv6ejguy]

The Ryan Falconer prepped V12s in the Thunder Mustang are awesome and sound beautiful but they are no match for the turbocharged Conti's at this time until they get their supercharger or turbos. The TM holds the world speed record for naturally aspirated piston aircraft I believe.

The Electramotive prepped Nissan VG30 based V6s fitted to the Pond Racer sounded even better but were beset by cooling and turbo problems among others. The land based engines were virtually bulletproof in the Nissan GTP cars and steamrolled all comers for many years and were capable of nearly 1000hp in unrestricted trim. This reliability did not translate over to the Pond Racer unfortunately and Rick Brickert was tragically killed in the crash of the aircraft.

Algie Composite Aircraft is building a clean sheet design to be powered by a turbocharged LS1 V8. It is very innovative although unproven at this point. The LS1 would seem to be an excellent basis for Reno racing being of modern design and well proven to be reliable at least in atmo form by many endiurance racing wins for Chevrolet. This design comes from a top Indy Car engineer/ fabricator. http://members.iquest.net/~aca/

The Subies probably don't have the displacement in single engined form to compete with the 9+ liter Contis unless a smaller airframe was available than what is currently used in the Sport Class. Frontal area is the killer here. It would take at least 600hp to be competitive in a Lancair as of last year. The biggest closed deck design is only 2.5 liters and would be straining to churn that hp level out for 8 minutes.

I think a built LS1 turbo or ex Indy Car engine fitted to a Lancair would obliterate the Conti powered ones but this involves considerable R&D on the reduction drive, propeller and cooling systems. Doable but lots of talent and $$$ required. Certainly an ex Toyota Indy Car turbo engine is capable of 750-800 hp at a very conservative rpm level and slightly higher boost they they usually ran and should be completely reliable for the short Sport Class races. Now that would sound great mixed with the prop noise coming down the chute!

There were rumors of a turbo Wankel powered design several years ago but that has never flown. The reliability of turbocharged Wankels at high outputs has never been great for extended period useage however technology marches on and the small package of the Wankel may make this an attractive alternative to piston engines.

Conti still rules the Sport Class at the moment. Lyco has not had the best luck here so far. They'll need to give Jon Sharp and his designs another 200+ hp if they want to be competitive. Darryl Greenamyer wasted everyone last year. He is a VERY smart engineer/ pilot/ competitor.

 

[osxuser]

The Ryan Falconer prepped V12s in the Thunder Mustang are awesome and sound beautiful but they are no match for the turbocharged Conti's at this time until they get their supercharger or turbos. The TM holds the world speed record for naturally aspirated piston aircraft I believe.

The Electramotive prepped Nissan VG30 based V6s fitted to the Pond Racer sounded even better but were beset by cooling and turbo problems among others. The land based engines were virtually bulletproof in the Nissan GTP cars and steamrolled all comers for many years and were capable of nearly 1000hp in unrestricted trim. This reliability did not translate over to the Pond Racer unfortunately and Rick Brickert was tragically killed in the crash of the aircraft.

Algie Composite Aircraft is building a clean sheet design to be powered by a turbocharged LS1 V8. It is very innovative although unproven at this point. The LS1 would seem to be an excellent basis for Reno racing being of modern design and well proven to be reliable at least in atmo form by many endiurance racing wins for Chevrolet. This design comes from a top Indy Car engineer/ fabricator. http://members.iquest.net/~aca/

The Subies probably don't have the displacement in single engined form to compete with the 9+ liter Contis unless a smaller airframe was available than what is currently used in the Sport Class. Frontal area is the killer here. It would take at least 600hp to be competitive in a Lancair as of last year. The biggest closed deck design is only 2.5 liters and would be straining to churn that hp level out for 8 minutes.

I think a built LS1 turbo or ex Indy Car engine fitted to a Lancair would obliterate the Conti powered ones but this involves considerable R&D on the reduction drive, propeller and cooling systems. Doable but lots of talent and $$$ required. Certainly an ex Toyota Indy Car turbo engine is capable of 750-800 hp at a very conservative rpm level and slightly higher boost they they usually ran and should be completely reliable for the short Sport Class races. Now that would sound great mixed with the prop noise coming down the chute!

There were rumors of a turbo Wankel powered design several years ago but that has never flown. The reliability of turbocharged Wankels at high outputs has never been great for extended period useage however technology marches on and the small package of the Wankel may make this an attractive alternative to piston engines.

Conti still rules the Sport Class at the moment. Lyco has not had the best luck here so far. They'll need to give Jon Sharp and his designs another 200+ hp if they want to be competitive. Darryl Greenamyer wasted everyone last year. He is a VERY smart engineer/ pilot/ competitor.

From what I heard from a source at Lycoming was:

Sharp had a 600+HP totally custom TIO-540, complete with 60+in of Manifold pressure. Lycoming did put a LOT of R&D into that engine, and then Sharp had his infamous gear incident. $$$ --- Flush.

Relentless ran a stock 350HP TIO-540, and was fairly competitive in the race. If Sharp had been able to run the first year, he most likely would've come out on top.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Now that is fast

Relentless ran a stock 350HP TIO-540, and was fairly competitive in the race. If Sharp had been able to run the first year, he most likely would've come out on top.

I agree the NXT is almost a dedicated racer. The Legacy, obviously very fast, is a side-by-side (crazy fast) cruiser. NXT has somewhat staggered seating and has less compromises for the practicality of a daily flyer.

Just on paper and looking at the #3X NXT, it just looks faster. I would be surprised if John Sharp does not dominate this class for years to come, like he did in little formula Nemesis. That does not take anything away from the Gold Class winner doing over 360mph. Since 2004 winning speed has gone up by 30 mph. The future races will be between the NXT, Legacy and Thunder Mustang, until a custom racer comes around. The SX300 & Glasair III's are just a little off the mark.

The little formulas are doing 250 mph. The Biplanes are doing 216 mph and the T6's are doing 220's. So I guess I got to get my game up to fly the sport class. The slowest (relative term) in the bronze sport class last year, was a Lancair 360 doing 233 mph! Even a Vari-EZ went 350 mph, of lightspeed's Klaus Savier. He calls his bird the Dlaminator, ha ha.

A stock 180 HP RV, without some serious modification will have a hard time making the show. With the turns and the 5,000 ft plus density altitude, a turbo or NO2 engine is needed to get the 200 mph laps? I guess that keeps the rif-raf out. Dave Anders RV-4 is 250mph straight and level, but still I would love to see a RV in the race. I still can't figure out out Earl Hibler's, Glasair II S TD, #40 Baby can do 267 mph with the gear out. Something to learn there. Is anyone going to campaign a RV? I could see a hot rod IO390 RV with some NO2 or turbo getting around in the 230's? We can dream can't we.

George

 

[N916K]

but still I would love to see a RV in the race.

Half the Bronze Race is RV's. Of course soon a 250 mph plane won't qualify. I guess I have to pound rivets fast if I want to even try to qualify.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

Where are the RV's?

Half the Bronze Race is RV's.

I did not know that since I did not see any RV's in the top 8. From: http://www.sportclass.com/race_results.html

I just don't see any RV's on the site. I have never seen RV's listed among th qualifiers in 2004 or 2005? If you mean the HRII's, F-1's and John's HRIII, they got it covered. John Harmon had a good go last year, with third in the Bronze at 251.5 mph. Mark Frederick's F-1 Rocket (with new wing) did a very respectable 249.6 mph.

The field is made from 24 primary and 4 alternates. The 24th to qualify in last year was a Lancair 360, at 233.4 mph. So I guess you are right 250 mph to qualify The top three finishers in the Bronze class where over 250 mph! However to qualify speed, you only need 200 mph lap speed, but to make the show you need to be at least the 28th fastest (really 24th) to qualify.

I got to go someday, just as a spectator. We need some RV's to represent. Common guys lets see some of those fast RV's out on the race course. May be we can sponsor someone? G

 

[rv8ch]

RVs at Reno

... We need some RV's to represent. Common guys lets see some of those fast RV's out on the race course. May be we can sponsor someone? G

You might see mine there someday, parked next to the other guys that used their RV as transportation. I think Reno racing is not really part of the RV "Total Performance" profile. However, if someone wants to get their RV into the races, I'll be happy to take advantage of all the speed mod tricks they learn along the way.

 

[N941WR]

I got to go someday, just as a spectator. We need some RV's to represent. Common guys lets see some of those fast RV's out on the race course. May be we can sponsor someone? G

If they ever create an RV-9 O-290 class, I'll be there. Until then, I'll just stay in the stands!

 

[osxuser]

I'd love to build and RV to race, but it'd be a -4 with clipped wings and an IO-400. And that 'd happen AFTER I retire and have time and money throw away.

 

[rv6ejguy]

No canards doing 350mph at Reno last year.

The Rockets are completely outclassed in the Sport Class but I enjoyed seeing them there anyway.

I think everyone underestimates the cleanliness of the Lancair and the talent of Greenamyer. I looked at his aircraft up close in great detail for a couple of hours. His aircraft is different in many sigificant ways from all the others including the engine/ ADI systems which are the secret to the power his Conti is capable of. His 365mph average speed in the 2005 Gold race was well ahead of all the others. I too hoped Sharp would give him a run for the money but none of the NXTs were even in the ballpark. The intercooling systems on the NXT Lycos could not begin to approach the effectiveness of what DG uses. DGs engine operated at a different octave from all the other Sport Class entries, usually an effective and reliable indicator of power output in turbocharged race engines.

The Sport Class does not allow one off's so you'll not likely see too many new designs come along like in F1.

If you have never been to Reno, you are missing a great show. If you love engines and fast aircraft, there is nothing else like it. It sends shivers down my spine watching a Bearcat or P51 coming down the chute at over 500mph and 30-50 feet off the deck. The prop and engine noise is pure music and magic.

 

[tin man]

From what I heard from a source at Lycoming was:

Sharp had a 600+HP totally custom TIO-540, complete with 60+in of Manifold pressure. Lycoming did put a LOT of R&D into that engine, and then Sharp had his infamous gear incident. $$$ --- Flush.

Relentless ran a stock 350HP TIO-540, and was fairly competitive in the race. If Sharp had been able to run the first year, he most likely would've come out on top.

Kevin ran 2900rpm and 45 inches of mp in that STOCK ? engine. This he says on his website. Those of us lurkung in his pit heard 48" to 50" mp more than once. Take into account everyone dumbs down their hp ratings anyway.

Tom
northern california

 

[gmcjetpilot]

It has been tried

Remeber the Pond Racer (built for Bob Pond by scaled composites and Burt Rutan), with the twin Nissan VG30 engines. The little 3.0 liter super-charged V6's could put out up to 1000 hp, about 600 hp in the pond. There where lots of cooling problems and never meet its potential. Considering 60 year old aircraft can do 460 mph, this new design could only do 400 mph.

"1993 the Pond racer was entered again and once more, piloted by Rick Brickert. During qualifying, the aircraft began leaking oil and suffered an engine failure. The margin for error in pylon racing is very small as the competitors fly close to the ground at high speed. The Pond Racer crashed and killed Rick Brickert."

The Pond racer project was never revived and a modern unlimited class challenger was never truly realized.

http://www.mojave.ca.us/museum/images/air/air-races-pond-racer-01-8.jpg

WAV file of Pond racer fly-by
http://www.rcexchange.com/Pondracr.wav

Considering vintage aircraft like the P-51 Mustang, Grumman Bearcat and the Hawker Sea Fury are still fast and fairly reliable, that is a testament to the these spectacular warbirds and the men and woman who designed and built them 60 years ago. The Bearcat and Sea Fury are aircooled with big sloppy jugs. That kind of put the water cooled vs. aircooled debate in prospective.

It's more difficult to build a light liquid-cooled engine. Weight is one reason air-cooling is common in aircraft engines, and reliability through simplicity and ready access to cool air are other reasons aircooled engines dominate small aircraft, even RV's.


G

 

[rv6ejguy]

It's more difficult to build a light liquid-cooled engine. Weight is one reason air-cooling is common in aircraft engines, and reliability through simplicity and ready access to cool air are other reasons aircooled engines dominate small aircraft, even RV's.

It's not difficult to do on a clean sheet design in our modern times. Almost all the GTP (Toyota AAR), IndyCar and F1 engines weigh less than 350lbs. and jam out 750-850hp and the cooling issue is very well understood by the engineers who designed them. The packages offer very small frontal areas also. These are really the best choices for reliable auto based race engines for the Sport Class. There are a lot of these engines available surprisingly enough from several sources.