Captain Avgas

Well Known Member
It would be great if people going to Oshkosh could take a few quality screen pix of the new synthetic vision offerings from GRT, AFS, Dynon, MGL (and any other Experimental system with SV) and post them here.

It would be interesting to see pix of both the forward facing synthetic view (primary flight display) and plan synthetic view based on the same database(map display).

Written impressions of the competing systems would also be appreciated with particular reference to the quality of the synthetic vision screen presentation, resolution, refresh rate, brightness, steadiness etc.

I'm sure many builders getting close to working on panels would appreciate the pix and comparisons.
 
Bump-bump-bump-buh-bump-bump (I feel free)

Slowhand and I are watching this space with anticipation :D
 
dynon

First off, sorry for my so good photo skills.
Here is some pics of the new dynon efis.

dynon_efis.jpg

dynon_efis-2.jpg


Christopher.
 
MGL

Here is the Odyssey from MGL. The new graphics card they added makes it look really good. I took this picture at a angle cause someone was in the way.
MGL_efis.jpg
 
GRT

And the GRT efis
GRT_efis.jpg


I forgot to grab a pictures of the advanced flight systems efis.

Chris.
 
Thanks for taking those shots for us!!

Boy, I'm in love with the Dynon! The HX isn't cheap, but those graphics are great. Even though the graphics aren't as nice as the Dynon or GRT, the price point makes the MGL very tempting, I wonder what the new setup is going for.

I find it interesting how much I am obsessed with having that kind of setup considering I have never flown with even a moving map GPS. Heck, it wasn't until I was around 150 hours that I sepent any significant time in something that even had a GPS and I thought that was just awesome.
 
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Here's the AFS
DSC04101.JPG


And the Garmin $$$
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DSC04106.JPG


I also have a great video of the Dynon Skyview, I'll post it up soon.
 
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All I can say is these things are frigin amazing! My dream panel that I will build someday as a replacement for my current one will be niiiiiice!
 
Cute stuff but does it contribute to safety?

Check out - http://www.seeandavoid.org/

There was a seminar on near misses and mid air collisions at OSH and it was sobering. Pilots are spending too much time looking at fancy glass and not scanning airspace around them. It only takes one missed target and it could be a big bang. There are many near misses every day in this country. The equipment is impressive but it does not warn of other airplanes or large birds so don't plan on spending a lot time looking at it if you want to fly as save as possible.
 
see-and-avoid vs. technology

David,

Your point is valid, but I have to also point out the other side of the coin. History has shown that even under the best conditions, and with pilots scanning the airspace diligently as they should, the "see-and-avoid" method to collision avoidance really doesn't work all that well. And while I don't have the numbers, I suspect that the majority of GA aircraft involved in mid-airs or near misses today do not have "fancy glass". Preoccupation inside the cockpit is certainly a common factor, but steam gauge pilots get distracted and preoccupied inside the cockpit too. If anything, this suggests that a greater level of cockpit automation (FADEC and other technologies) may be helpful in reducing pilot workload and relieving the pilot to spend more time scanning outside the cockpit. But I digress.

It has been realized for a long time that technological solutions were needed in order to attain a level of safety in collision avoidance greater than that which is achievable with "see-and-avoid" alone. For the airline industry, that solution came in the form of TCAS. And while TCAS is certainly not perfect, I think most would agree (and the numbers show) that it did bring a great improvement in safety. Likewise, collision avoidance aids such as PCAS, TIS, and ADS-B are now becoming available and affordable for the GA market, and many of the new glass panels incorporate or support these technologies. There is good reason to believe that these technologies will bring similar benefits to GA that TCAS brought to the airlines.

[P.S. the equipment I mentioned does warn you about other airplanes, but as you said, it doesn't warn you of large birds.]

To be clear, I'm not arguing against "see-and-avoid", quite the contrary. I am arguing that an optimal combination of see-and-avoid, new technology, and pilot training in the correct use of the technology (not fixation), will prove to be a better solution than see-and-avoid alone.

-Roee
 
...[P.S. the equipment I mentioned does warn you about other airplanes, but as you said, it doesn't warn you of large birds.]...

Only if those airplanes have electrical systems and transponders installed and turned on. Do not get complacent and expect those fancy fish finders to point out every plane in the sky.
 
Thanks for taking those shots for us!!

Boy, I'm in love with the Dynon! The HX isn't cheap, but those graphics are great. Even though the graphics aren't as nice as the Dynon or GRT, the price point makes the MGL very tempting, I wonder what the new setup is going for.

I find it interesting how much I am obsessed with having that kind of setup considering I have never flown with even a moving map GPS. Heck, it wasn't until I was around 150 hours that I sepent any significant time in something that even had a GPS and I thought that was just awesome.

Haha - you must be a young guy...

Several folks on this site had 1500+ hours down low at 500 knots in "something old" with nothing more than a paper map and a sick GIB before we ever saw a GPS. It was like a miracle...

:D
 
Only if those airplanes have electrical systems and transponders installed and turned on. Do not get complacent and expect those fancy fish finders to point out every plane in the sky.

True, the small fraction of aircraft that still don't have or operate transponders will not be picked up by this equipment. That's a good argument against becoming complacent on looking out the window. But it's not a good argument against using modern technology in addition to looking out the window. As I said before, modern technology should not be a crutch for becoming complacent on good old fashioned see-and-avoid. But modern technology, if used properly, can be a great asset for enhancing collision avoidance with the great majority of aircraft today which do operate a transponder.
 
Transponders and radios should be mandatory

Transponders and radios should be required equipment.

See and avoid does not work. Sure, it helps, but most of the time it is "big sky theory" that saves our rear ends.

If you don't believe me the fly with an active traffic system and see how many aircraft are actually around that you never saw before.

RV's at least have great visibility. But take a 172, you can hardly see to the left and right. If a plane is from your left or right, you will not be able to see them. And not to mention being overtaken by a quicker aircraft.

All these situations and more can be reduced with a traffic system. Are they perfect? No. But it sure beats relying on chance.
 
Thanks for the pics. I'm leaning towards the AFS - but I won't need it for another 12 months - so the whole field could change by then. Thanks, again!
 
Synthetic vision grid

I note that both GRT and AFS do not have a quadrilateral grid superimposed over their synthetic vision view. On the other hand Dynon, MGL, and perhaps Garmin, have a grid.

I've had the opportunity to personally see two high end certificated SV systems and both had the grids.

My opinion is that a grid allows for superior terrain depth perception, particularly in a relatively flat environment. The downside is that it presumably requires more processing power.

I also note that Dynon's superimposed quadrilateral grid uses an alternating colour mode (eg. the green areas have alternating dark and light green quadrilaterals). This seems to provide even better depth perception.

I think those guys at Dynon are really doing their homework on the "Skyview" system.
 
I note that both GRT and AFS do not have a quadrilateral grid superimposed over their synthetic vision view. On the other hand Dynon, MGL, and perhaps Garmin, have a grid.

I've had the opportunity to personally see two high end certificated SV systems and both had the grids.

My opinion is that a grid allows for superior terrain depth perception, particularly in a relatively flat environment. The downside is that it presumably requires more processing power.

I also note that Dynon's superimposed quadrilateral grid uses an alternating colour mode (eg. the green areas have alternating dark and light green quadrilaterals). This seems to provide even better depth perception.

I think those guys at Dynon are really doing their homework on the "Skyview" system.


Yes you are correct. Garmin has the grid as well.
You need some form of grid for an EFIS to allow instant orientation (the grid would be aligned lat/long) and it allows instant distance judgement.
It also enhances terrain. The trouble with terrain is, unless you pose it (Airshow favourite) it does not look good as you are working with only slight differences in color gradients or have to add "fog" to enhance distance. All of this does not work well if you have a lot of ambient light shining on the display surface.
You may have noticed that we have now gone a bit further as well and are showing important features like highways, major roads, rivers and so on as well on the 3D SV. In addition you can simply switch that to a FLIR camera with AHRS grid overlay so you have the best of both (or even just a normal cheap bullet camera - just for the fun of it).

The grid does not really add to processing power requirements. The texture mapping (using bilinear filtering) is far more hungry for processing power and really has to be done in a dedicated graphics processor if you want any sort of acceptable frame rate.

The idea behind SV is to present an abstraction of the terrain and important features - you don't want to have real looking terrain like you have with a flight simulator - after all this is not intended to simulate but to be a real World tool for a real pilot. It needs to convey information in a clear and instantly recognizable manner.

Probably the most convincing way to explain this is if you connect one of our EFIS's to a flight simulator (Microsoft's work just fine for this).
The "outside view" on the flightsim looks close to real while the corresponding terrain view on the EFIS looks abstract. But while "flying" in mountainous terrain the EFIS shows a much clearer and defined picture of what matters (and as extra bonus also gives a much wider field of view thanks to trickery).

For those that do not agree, we have a little present as well - you can view satellite images in 3D on the SV just like Google Earth. Free.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
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Does anyone have a photo of the AFS 4500s in the Aerosport panel that was in the back of AFS's booth at Airventure? I'm looking for a photo of the panel and all of the inserts.

thanks,

bob
 
ADVANCED SV pictures

I flew the RV-10 IFR down to Oakland, CA on Monday morning and had the opportunity to take a picture of the screens along with the outside terrain. The first two pictures were taken in northern California North West of Mount Shasta. As I descended into the Bay area I was back into the clouds until I broke out on the KOAK 27R ILS. I had the synthetic vision with terrain and runways on my left EFIS while the right EFIS displayed my aircrafts position on a large 27R ILS approach plate. It is amazing how much better this makes flying actual IFR.

It is awesome what you can actually do with our airplanes. At 1:30PM I am in a foundry working on a Robot in Oakland (after weeks of one of my old customers from my previous life begging for help and assuring me that I was the ONLY person on the planet who could fix his problem, I finally had to take pity on him and go down there) and by 5:30PM I am sitting at home watching the news. In less than four hours I drove to the airport, filed an IFR flight plan, returned the rental car, fueled the plane, and flew home to Portland. Let's see you do that with the Airlines :)

DSC_0080.JPG



DSC_0079.JPG



Runway picture from KUAO
DSC_0045.JPG


I was flying at 12,000ft with a TAS of 170-175kts in the RV-10.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N402RH/history/20090901/2140Z/KOAK/KUAO

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
 
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