Rick6a

Rick6a

Well Known Member
Can someone explain to me the following observation. What is the jackology behind the seemingly restrictive operating schedule of Exhibition buildings A,B,C, and D? :confused: You know, the buildings open in sync and promptly at 10:00 A.M. then close precisely at 5:00 P.M. Usually the sheer amount of foot traffic milling about the buildings before and after these times would seem to suggest many potential buyers are left without opportunity to spend their hard earned dollars inside. A cynic might note that EAA's own SkyShops are open with much longer hours yet those facilities do not offer any meaningful direct competition to the exhibitors who pay big bucks for the stall space in the exhibition buildings. Ditto for the FlyMart. Seems to me, the average vendor would want to stay open considerably longer than the rules permit. After all, this event only happens a few days once a year. What gives?

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
 
Rick,
I think the buildings open at 9:00 am not 10. I believe the reason that they close at 5 is to try and stagger the auto traffic away from the show. Many Vendors and some shoppers will leave at five when the buildings close, while many attendees will watch what is left of the air show and not leave until later. The traffic can be a little bad when you are driving out after 5:00. The buildings have to be opened and closed at a specific time, as it is impossible to have some booths closed and others open due to the value of the products in the booths inside the buildings, that left without supervision those products might disappear.......
Good Luck,
Mahlon
"The opinions and information provided in this and all of my posts are hopefully helpful to you. Please use the information provided responsibly and at you own risk."
 
Rick:

Having a friend that is a vender, I can tell you that having the exhibit hangars open from 9-5 is long enough. Those folks get pretty burned out by the end of the event.

The point was well taken that the venders have to agree to the hours of operation, since it is an all or nothing proposition. You can't have some booths open and others not. I think if you talk to any of the venders, you will find that they are pretty much satisified with the current set-up

Its probably good for all of us huddled masses too. Imagine how expensive OSH would be if we could spend our money even longer than we can now each day!! :eek:

Regards,
 
Memories of Oshkosh past

Oshkosh is evolving. Such is the nature of enormous success and growth. Whether it is changing for the better or worse is entirely up to each AirVenture attendee to decide. Some people would argue the event started going downhill when its sheer size prompted its relocation to Wittman Field! Everything is relative. When I started going in the mid Eighties, you could buy lemonade or Kool-Aid from kids who lived in houses just outside the property fence and you made your 25 or 50 cent transaction through it. Felt good to help line the pockets of ambitious little preteen entreprenuers! Then there was the property owner who always set up an ad hoc collection of tables and chairs under his own mature trees and offered a menu selection including hamburgers, brats, french fries, chips, pizza, soda, even beer. Long gone, I often wonder what happened. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, I'm thinking this property was just off Forest Home Ave. near the bus park? Anyway, from there, you could pass time from his shady residential surroundings while watching a local police officer managing the constant crowd while directing an unending procession of traffic from the middle of the street. At times it could be entertaining fare, especially if somebody didn't follow instructions. Oh well, nowadays, the only beer that can be had is marked by a balloon floating high above the sanctioned tent just southeast of the museum on Waukau Ave., or if you feel like committing to taking a time consuming trip, adjacent to the distant terminal building.

Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
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You're right Rick, the EAA Convention (as I fondly still call it) has made several changes, all not necessarily for the good.

One thing that really is apparent is that money talks. Just take a look at where the certified manufacturers' booths are and then look at where they have the most prolific kit manufacturer's booth. The deeper pockets get the prime spots at show center, whereas the kit manufacturers are located even further away than is the fly market. Even Ford Motor Company seems to be higher in the pecking order. Go figure.

Seems that the EAA has forgotten that EAA stands for Experimental Aircraft Association....meaning its emphasis should be on Experimental (read that Homebuilt) airplanes.

Having said all that, I still enjoy going to the Convention. I just wish the EAA had stuck to its orriginal objective and had airplanes built by homebuilders the main attraction and not Ford cars etc..........



Regards,
 
Oh boy! Land Rovers! Driving over dirt piles! Let's stand around and watch!!

I fail to see the point of that I guess... big deal, I could drive over those bumps in my XTerra for less than half the price of a fancy lad Land Rover. Fords, John Deeres, Land Rovers, Honda motorcycles/ATVs/generators, multi-million $ King Airs and PC-12s... yep, deep pockets rule.
 
Be Nice

jbDC9 said:
I fail to see the point of that I guess..."
Click to expand...

Now be nice. A lot of people have a hard time seeing the point in spending $75K to build an airplane and fly it around as well. I did a lot of 4-Wheeling as a teenager and it is a lot of fun.

Money talks is nothing new. If the money Land Rover and Ford and John Deer spends to drive their vehicles over a pile of dirt somehow helps out the EAA then I say bring it on. We can always close our eyes as we walk by if we don't want to see it. No big deal to me. Yes it is a fact that Airventure has evolved into a huge attraction that appeals to a mass of people. I see this as a good thing. It costs big bucks to put on such a show and if we had to depend entirely on builders for funds it wouldn't be anything like it is today. Those extra bucks help out in a lot of areas besides fly-ins.

Hey wait a minute they do have shows geared more towards the home builder. They call them EAA regional and local chapter fly-ins.
 
Tom Maxwell said:
Hey wait a minute they do have shows geared more towards the home builder. They call them EAA regional and local chapter fly-ins.
Click to expand...

However, they tend to be somewhat less attractive to the average homebuilder because very few, if any, of the vendors we want to see are there. Why? Not enough critical mass of potential buyers will show up. So they wait for the big shows.

When I lived in Chicago I ranged from day tripping to spending weeks at Oshkosh. On the day trip I did a kamikazi run through the exhibits collecting information, and buying little. Just not enough time. But justification for many of the vendors there is based on total sales at the show.... they seldom know where the lead came from 3 months after the show!

I wonder, however, whether the attendence would be what it is if the wives and families weren't encouraged to come along? I know mine would not have spent the time there that they did just looking at airplanes.

And I absolutely agree that money talks! What I find interesting is that some people perceive that to be a bad thing! Last I heard there was no shortage of room at the convention site for potential vendors/exhibitors. That means that Ford, Jag, Land Rover, Deere et. al. were paying good money and subsidizing my attendance at the show. Works for me!

And lastly, before someone knocks me off this soap box, I suspect that Van could find a better location at the show if he were willing to pay for it. But then, why should he? He's in business to make money, and it seems to work for him. As far as the other 98% of attendees that can't or aren't interested in spelling RV go, There's plenty for them to see to!

OK, Nomex underwear is on......
 
OSH Commentary <A different perspective> ...

painless said:
You're right Rick, the EAA Convention (as I fondly still call it) has made several changes, all not necessarily for the good.

One thing that really is apparent is that money talks. Just take a look at where the certified manufacturers' booths are and then look at where they have the most prolific kit manufacturer's booth. The deeper pockets get the prime spots at show center, whereas the kit manufacturers are located even further away than is the fly market. Even Ford Motor Company seems to be higher in the pecking order. Go figure.

Seems that the EAA has forgotten that EAA stands for Experimental Aircraft Association....meaning its emphasis should be on Experimental (read that Homebuilt) airplanes.

Having said all that, I still enjoy going to the Convention. I just wish the EAA had stuck to its orriginal objective and had airplanes built by homebuilders the main attraction and not Ford cars etc..........



Regards,
Click to expand...
Having been involved in the production of a fledgling "airshow", I am HAPPY to see what they have done with OSH (bigger show with solid sponsors who get their money's worth)

It is all nice to hope that someone puts on an event like OSH and keep it nice and even quaint "like it used to be in the early days.." but one thing that is probably not evident is the sheer costs associated with such an event. I just spent a few hours reviewing the finances <expen$e$> of an event I am associated with. (Whew!!!)

Can you have an RV "fly-in" at virtually no coat? Sure! And I love going to such.

But you cannot provide the variety that OSH has on a low budget or on gate receipts alone. Does Ford get a better slot than Van's? You betcha! Does Van's care, I doubt it (they don't NEED to be in the high rent district and are not likely to pay it). And I am glad they are that way.

Ford, John Deere, Honda, Canon et al, all help to make it possible to put on the event. I only WISH we could get sponsors like that to spend the big bucks to insure the continuation of what we think is a "good little event".

And having done tradeshows for several years, as a vendor I definitely would NOT want to be on the concrete any longer than 9-5 each day. It can be BRUTAL, no matter how good business is. Hey, my "dogs are barking" by the end of the day from jsut walking around an LOOKING! And in reality, anyone that is going to buy something will figure out how to do it between 9 and 5. It also is nice to allow the workers to get out for a minute or two before everything is shut down.

Things change. We all probably have some fond memories of an earlier OSH. First timers will look back this year as a fond memory I would.

James
 
A few points:

1) I really hate it that Van's display is stuck away from the crowd of marginally interested people who are just there for the airshow. I mean most of the people around the Van's display are builders and potential builders. I wish I could wait in a long line to talk to someone from Van's or look at the company airplanes.

2) I wish those large corporations who pay large sums of money to the organization that does the most to support our favorite hobby would stop. The EAA should just cut their lobbying and let our hobby be outlawed. That would save plenty of money so Van's can have a setup right in Aeroshell square. I guess maybe they could stop all the useless workshops that cost money too.

3) Who let in all these regular people anyway. We don't need any of them getting involved in aviation. I mean if too many of them start building airplanes, economies of scale just might take over and lower the cost of everything we buy for our aircraft! Yikes!

OK, I should have said a few viciously sarcastic points. Oshkosh is the big show. If you want a small show, don't go to Osh. If you want the largest collection of general aviation enthusiasts and hardware anywhere in the world, well, that's what it is.

Is it possible for someone to attend Oshkosh for the first time, and leave without knowing that you can build an airplane in your garage? I welcome the hugeness of the event that brings people in. That's how I and many others learned about homebuilding.
 
ooch.....ouch.....yikes....

Nurse...I need my burn ointment!!!!


Just want to point out before any other sarcastic comments are directed my way......

1) All I said was that I wished that the EAA made homebuilt airplanes and the kit manufacturers the focus of the event rather than Ford cars etc.

2) I never said I was opposed to corporate sponsorship. Just don't cram it down my throat.

3) Where in the heck did I ever say that I was opposed to "regular people" attending Osh??

Taking target off my back........
 
Amazing

Excellent replies. After you got to some event for like Oshkosh for around 20 years - well, that's a long time to sustain interest in an event. I don't like to go to fairs or carnivals any more but as a kid I thought they were magical. I don't particularly like to go to airshows anymore either but when I'm there some things will make my heart beat a little faster. BUT! it is not about me. I have been involved in many world beating organizations that are now completely out of existence partly because they lost the leader that founded them along with their passion for excellence in the field and focused on business as the end instead of the means. It is absolutely amazing to me that the EAA each year focuses on producing a better show than last year and they are successful. This year has got to be the best ever. A jadded view is something that tends to come with age - too bad but that's the way things go. EAA and AirVenture (yes I can say it without cringing) are amazing.

Bob Axsom
 
I didn't mean to imply that you said anything about "regular" people, but part of the reason for all the big corporate sponsors being there is to interest them, and hey, if they happen to discover homebuilding while they are there (and they will be exposed to it), great!

My other point is that all the big corporate guys get all the attention from non-builders leaving the kit companies, and the RV area much less crowded and much more like a small event.

Now, the EAA could stake out a small place around Aershell square to promote experimental aircraft and point out where to go for the kit manufacturers, and homebuilt parking areas, etc.

I've found it very easy to ignore all the corporate stuff. Last year was the first time in several years that I actually saw the main entrance. Camping helps that out since there's a separate entrance from the campgrounds.

Finally, to emphasize one of Bob's points, this year is looking like it should be one of the best.
 
And the good news is that the Upper Midwest has finally broken out of its weather pattern of constant threat of rain and showers (since May) and the weather has been perfect!
 
Oshkosh...behind the scenes

I have only been to Oshkosh once, 2003. I'm going this year although my plane will be about month short from completion. I have a side business that I do at special events, Kettle Korn. I have worked several aviation events and done pretty good. After going in 2003 I contacted EAA to see about vending at future AirAdventures. I figured it would be worth the trip. I noticed a shortage of "snack" type items. I was flatly told that the food items are contracted. When I asked to have the contacted information for the contractor I was told they were not allowed to give it out.

I have worked hundreds of events over the years including many that are administered by a contractor. Never have I been told the contractor information was not available.

I would be willing to bet that if the EAA put out a request for food vendors amongst EAA members they could meet the need. I'm very confident that there is probably "one of everything" available.

I was not impressed as to how I was treated at all. I figured they would help in some manner, and at a minimum, not be rude about it.

Darwin N. BArrie
Chandler AZ
 
Oshkosh

I am glad to read some of you still say...,, I'm going to Oshkosh!
Big is ok with me.
Change is change. I think stuff is improving
Name change??
It's Oshkosh to me..
 
By the way, if you REALLY want to have fun at Oshkosh, volunteer for something. It's a blast, you meet even more people and you're a bigger part of the show. I'll be doing some announcing at the Forums. In the past I've also worked KidVenture which was cool. Of course,you see some really interesting stuff at FLO.
 
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